Richer Sounds now in employee ownership. Thoughts?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by skayjah, May 14, 2019.

  1. skayjah

    skayjah
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2019
    Messages:
    68
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Reading
    Ratings:
    +25
    Julian Richer has transferred 60% of the company to employees, with employees receiving £1,000 for each year of service.

    I think this is a great step and something which more companies should emulate. Employees having a real stake in a business can only be good for motivation and morale.

    Mods: not sure if this is the correct forum, feel free to move if it isn't!
     
  2. rousetafarian

    rousetafarian
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    23,864
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    NW
    Ratings:
    +15,880
    It’s fine here
     
  3. davidjohnson

    davidjohnson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,680
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,465
    From the outside it seems Richer is quite a good egg.
     
  4. rousetafarian

    rousetafarian
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    23,864
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    NW
    Ratings:
    +15,880
    Tax free I wonder?
     
  5. skayjah

    skayjah
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2019
    Messages:
    68
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Reading
    Ratings:
    +25
    Yeah, especially with the lack of zero hour contracts in his stores and the fact he's funding an organisation looking into the finances of multinationals. Seems like a good bloke.
    I hope not! I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now ;)
     
  6. maddy

    maddy
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,569
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +441
    Structuring it this way exempts him from paying tax on cashing out.
     
  7. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,803
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +11,496
    I think it is a good move for staff and customers.
     
  8. Doug the D

    Doug the D
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    9,253
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Dorset
    Ratings:
    +15,403
    Love this part:

    'The company’s nine directors, who Richer said earn six-figure salaries, are not included in the bonus pool: “This is to thank loyal, hardworking colleagues'.

    He seemed to have stopped short of saying 'Not those lazy bastards sat on their arses in the boardroom', but I'm clever enough to be able to read between the lines on that quote :laugh:

    As David said above, he seems like a good boss, fair play to him :thumbsup:
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  9. krish

    krish
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    36,458
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Astral Crescent, Zoovroozlechester, Betelgeuse V
    Ratings:
    +17,365
    The opposite of Philip Green.
     
  10. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,803
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +11,496
    Obi Wan vs. Darth Vader?
     
  11. davidjohnson

    davidjohnson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,680
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,465
    Unfortunately, there are plenty of Philip Greens and very few Julian Richers :(
     
  12. jassco

    jassco
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    6,182
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,286
    Wouldn't the tax be far less than he's giving away though?
     
  13. maddy

    maddy
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,569
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +441
    He's not giving it away, he's being paid for it though in a tax efficient manner:

    Employee ownership trusts

     
  14. Solomon Grundy

    Solomon Grundy
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    13,620
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    oop north.
    Ratings:
    +3,290
    I wouldn't want to pay tax directly to this shower of sh*te government either. Much rather have more for myself and buy stuff with it, paying VAT instead...at least I'd get something in return.
     
  15. maddy

    maddy
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,569
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +441
    Julian Richer funded an organisation to investigate tax avoidance.

    Richer Sounds boss launches crusade to expose tax avoiders

     
  16. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,803
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +11,496
    So would he have more money after taxes if he had just sold the business instead of giving sixty percent away?
     
  17. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    43,557
    Products Owned:
    11
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +16,862
    Tax avoidance is something the government can resolve, the individuals using it aren’t doing anything wrong.

    Tax evasion however is a different matter. I think by looking at the avoiders he is barking up the wrong tree.
     
  18. Derek S-H

    Derek S-H
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,798
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Brighton
    Ratings:
    +2,694
    Evasion, avoidance, it's all just semantics.

    Basically, they can afford to pay their share of tax and don't want to because they're greedy, that's their motivation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wow Wow x 1
    • Sad Sad x 1
    • List
  19. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,803
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +11,496
    I put a lot into my private pension and get the tax and NI on that.
    I have also moved around the country a hell of a lot with work and the money going into my pension will mean I get less handouts from the government.
    If I may ask a question - do you put any more than the minimum into your pension?
    Also are you planning for retirement? I have put extra in to my pension for a lot of years.
     
  20. Doug the D

    Doug the D
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    9,253
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Dorset
    Ratings:
    +15,403
    I think it's wrong that whenever someone does something good for others, as Richer clearly has done here, there's always someone waiting in the wings to have a dig. He's doing right by his staff, but people still look for the 'but' don't they?...

    Reminds of a phrase:

    'A pat on the back is a recce for a knife'
     
    • Agree Agree x 16
    • Like Like x 3
    • List
  21. Derek S-H

    Derek S-H
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,798
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Brighton
    Ratings:
    +2,694
    I quoted your post and replied to it and you gave me a :( (which you're entirely entitled to do, of course), can I ask why?

    Do you think I'm wrong? Do you think tax avoiders/evaders/whatever are not motivated by personal greed? If not, what are they motivated by?

    Are these questions directed at me or someone else, it's not entirely clear?

    For me, I put nothing into my pension as I've opted out and I have no plans for retirement. I don't even bother attempting to control the future as it is a complete unknown, I just live very much in the present.

    I don't advocate this to anyone else as it is very much a personal choice, but it suits my outlook.
     
  22. Derek S-H

    Derek S-H
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,798
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Brighton
    Ratings:
    +2,694
    I tend to think that a negative response probably reveals more about the respondent than the subject they're commenting on.

    And I am as guilty of this as anybody!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  23. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,803
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +11,496
    And what happens when you are unable to work? Inevitably the welfare state will kick in.
     
  24. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    43,557
    Products Owned:
    11
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +16,862
    Avoidance evasion it is all semantics you said. And no it isn’t, it is very different. One is abiding by the rules and the other isn’t.

    I don’t think that avoiders are driven by greed at all. When I’m contributing privately to my pension am I being greedy? When I’m taking tax avoidance advantage by utilising a mechanism like an ISA am I being greedy? I see no wrong or negative in abiding by the rules, understanding the rules and use them. That is not greed.
     
  25. Derek S-H

    Derek S-H
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,798
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Brighton
    Ratings:
    +2,694
    I imagine I'll be long gone before then. Or maybe not! Who knows?
     
  26. Derek S-H

    Derek S-H
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,798
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Brighton
    Ratings:
    +2,694
    Er, rules are created by us and can be changed by us at any time, they are not fixed entities as you may be suggesting.

    I don't know what motivates you and, in fairness, I also don't really know definitively what motivates massively wealthy individuals or huge corporations to shuffle their money around to avoid/evade/however you want to label it paying their tax, but I would suggest greed is probably a factor.

    What do you think?

    I don't think Julian Richer is a perfect human being, but he does seem to recognise the contribution his workers have made towards his success. If only more organisations would have a similar outlook instead of treating their employees as just fodder to be exploited, then maybe British workers wouldn't have such a bad reputation (which I'm sure is actually unjustified).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  27. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,803
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +11,496
    Can you provide sources?
     
  28. Derek S-H

    Derek S-H
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,798
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Brighton
    Ratings:
    +2,694
    Oh, I can't be bothered with all that!

    I'm sure if you look online you'll find plenty of reports about bosses complaining about how lazy British workers are compared to their Eastern European or Asian counterparts. This is usually in the service industries, mind.

    Like I said, reputation, not definitive fact.
     
  29. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,803
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +11,496
    So you don't have any.
     
  30. hippo99

    hippo99
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    17,019
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +10,134
    Not all tax avoidance is the same though. There’s the ones that are in the spirit of the law and open to anyone (eg pensions, ISA’s & numerous legitimate tax avoidance), & there are others that are quite dodgy & not in the spirit of the law (ranging from moving money to multiple shell companies as some exposed in Panama papers to Chris Moyles the 2nd hand car dealer :rolleyes:).
    These are the type he’s probably investigating - the really aggressive tax avoidance.
     

Share This Page

Loading...