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RGBvProgressive Scan vHDMI

VistaVision

Active Member
Can someone give me a rough percentage idea of the improvement in connecting a DVD player via RGB scart, compared to connecting via Progressive Scan compared to connecting via HDMI cable?
Many thanks:thumbsup:
 

alancolledge

Novice Member
I couldn't give you a percentage but the difference from bog standard RGB to progressive DVI (nearly HDMI!) is dramatic.

I am not a picture expert as some on the forum and I would love to give you some officious terminology but in laymans terms!!

I have Sky + through RGB my old DVD (also connected through RGB) although gave a better picture, up close to the screen I could see 'noises' around some movement which related to say the best quality Sky Movie channels.

The improvements I have seen with DVI has done away with those noises for a brighter, much sharper picture as if to wipe the screen clean again.

I am sorry I can't tell you about component as I don't have the cable to view this way.

In conclusion my expectations have been lived up to if that is anything to go by!!

:hiya:
 

buns

Banned
tough to answer seeing as hdmi can be prog scan. You are mixing interfaces are signals..... so its really not possible to compare :)

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VistaVision

Active Member
:thumbsup:
Many thanks for the imfo. It will help to decide which DVD player to buy to upgrade my present one.
 

buns

Banned
You really dont need to pay huge premiums for any of these features..... its whether your display can handle them is the more important point

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VistaVision

Active Member
Hoping to upgrade to a plasma towards the end of the year so my question was whether it was worth paying the extra £300 for a DVD player with HDMI as to one with progressive scan, is the difference in picture quality worth the extra cash?
 

buns

Banned
It depends on the plasma.... your plasma may not have hdmi for a start. Standard prog scan may be enough, the benefit of HDMI is that it is digital and gives alot of scope for different resolutions. For instance, the panasonic plasmas yet wouldnt benefit from using the hdmi 'type' interface. Im intent on getting one of these plasmas and will not be using a digital connection, rather I will use component which is probably what you are thinking of when you say prog scan.

Apologies if this sounds useless, but im not sure you follow the terminology.

RGB scart interlaced video analogue
component interlaced or progressive video analogue
vga progressive video analogue

dvi progressive video digital
hdmi interlaced or progressive video digital

the last 2 enable much greater flexibility with rate and resolution.

At the moment, with plasma, my impression is that going for one of these digital interfaces is questionably the way to go.

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VistaVision

Active Member
Thanks, Buns. The plasma is a possibility towards the end of the year. I didn't want to buy a DVD player now and then regret it later. The choices were narrowed down to two Arcam models, the 89 and 79. If the difference between progressive scan and HDMI isn't all that great then it wouldn't judstify the extra expenditure.
Cheers
 

buns

Banned
Unfortunately that is almost impossible to answer. Until we hear about those who have tried the dv79, we wont know what options it will leave open, whether it will be compatible with any specific plasmas..... you know?

If it were my money, id get the dv89 for now (can be had for £599 at creative audio) and then worry about the hdmi later. If you decide you want the benefits that hdmi would bring, you can always invest in an external scaler that would do dvi instead..... this implementation will be every bit as good and in many ways better than hdmi from a dvd player. This route is pretty much the one I am using.

all the best

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VistaVision

Active Member
Buns,
Again, thanks for taking the time to help my decision making. However, I'm somewhat more confused than before, I'm new to the HDMI/progressive scan options. Can you give me some idea what," you can always invest in an external scaler that would do dvi instead..... this implementation will be every bit as good and in many ways better than hdmi from a dvd player" means and what kind of cost would be involved?
Many thanks again.
 

Jack the lad

Novice Member
Originally posted by VistaVision
Thanks, Buns. The plasma is a possibility towards the end of the year. I didn't want to buy a DVD player now and then regret it later. The choices were narrowed down to two Arcam models, the 89 and 79. If the difference between progressive scan and HDMI isn't all that great then it wouldn't judstify the extra expenditure.
Cheers
I tried to demo a Arcam 79 yesterday in Seven Oaks (Leeds), they havent got them yet :(

If anyone knows where I can demo one around the Notts area would be great :smashin:
 

buns

Banned
Vistavision,

HDMI is a digital interface, that is the biggest thing going for it. It means that signals dont need converted to analogue and the assocoiated degradation does not occur. Now HDMI is an audio and video interface, so, in time, it will do audio as well (it cant yet). The video side of hdmi is pretty much the same as dvi (which is the familiar computer interface). There are minor differences, but for the purposes of this, consider them the same but with a difference connector. So basically dvi offers the same benefits as offered by hdmi. You could get a player with a dvi output, such players do exist.

In using a player alone, the player itself is doing all the work. The signal is taken from the disc, processed, deinterlaced and scaled if necessary, processed then output. Now the deinterlacing and scaling are very important if you are using an advanced display since these are what takes your signal from being interlaced to being progressive. As you can probably guess, the hardware for doing this isnt necessarily simple or cheap. Within an integrated dvd player, there will be a limited amount of money invested here hence there will be limitation in the picture. So ideally you want a solution which uses very good deinterlacing and scaling. This is often found in an external video processor (like the lumagens mentioned). So what you do is take the signal from a standard dvd player and connect in one way or another to the lumagen. It can take analogue or digital inputs. The lumagen then does the complicated processing and outputs via dvi (if you want - it can do analogue as well which I intend to use).

You need to remember that hdmi/dvi on its own doesnt necessarily equal quality. There are many other factors and there will be occasions when using an analogue RGB type signal (this can also do progressive signals) will be better. Often the only way of knowing which way is best is to try it yourself.

all the best

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Gordon @ Convergent AV

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
DVI SRP £800
HDP SRP £1199
HDP Pro srp£1950

add £250 for dual SDI input on DVI or HDP, Pro has this as standard.

add £80 if you want BNC analogue out option on HDP.

These prices were set 2 months ago. Those who have preordered and paid for beta units will have these prices held.

These prices are subject to change between now and release.

If you want to make sure you get these prices you need to contact your dealer. Who knows he might do you a deal.

Gordon
 

JohnWH

Active Member
One small comment, if you're buying the player to use its digital output don't fooled into going for the more expensive one without demoing against a cheaper model, and when you do this do it as a blind test if possible (best if you get a freind to keep an eye on the sales person when they do the swapping as well, but hey, that's just me be paranoid!).

John.
 

buns

Banned
Originally posted by JohnWH
One small comment, if you're buying the player to use its digital output don't fooled into going for the more expensive one without demoing against a cheaper model, and when you do this do it as a blind test if possible (best if you get a freind to keep an eye on the sales person when they do the swapping as well, but hey, that's just me be paranoid!).

John.
BUT..... sound is something to consider. Although picture may be similar, sound likely wont. Ive upgraded a top notch panasonic sdi player for an arcam. In honesty im not expecting a better picture, but i do expect vastly better sound.

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JohnWH

Active Member
Originally posted by buns
BUT..... sound is something to consider. Although picture may be similar, sound likely wont. Ive upgraded a top notch panasonic sdi player for an arcam. In honesty im not expecting a better picture, but i do expect vastly better sound.

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Might be about to start a conversation I think we've had before, my view is that if you blind tested it you wouldn't be able tell the difference given the use of the digital interface, unless the arcam is messing with the audio in some way that you happen to like i.e. not faithfully reproducing the sound. Formovie play back its even more doubtfull that there any difference in sound reproduction.

Of course someone is welcome to prove to me that I'm wrong, that way I'll stop moaning about spending money on products with questionable value and just get on with enjoying the result!

John.
 

buns

Banned
Well you can probably guess I dont subscribe to that view. Quite simply, from a technical standpoint, a transport is NOT a transport. They make a distinct difference in data extraction so there is such a thing as a better transport. Fair enough the digital after circuitry may not be distinguishable from budget to premium player but if you limit what you give to this circuitry, then you limit the output.

My gf has unknowingly blind tested to prove this point for cd replay between my cd player and panasonic dvd player both fed spdif to a meridian processor. She wont even listen to a cd through the panasonic now..... 'a shame it sounds so bad cos its much nicer than the cd player'

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