REW

maxkolonko123

Active Member
Was thinking maybe we should create a REW thread for all who are interested how things should be done, tips etc. Personally im no expert at this stuff and im still learning how all works and how to use it for best results, there are plenty of people who know more about all this, so thought a thread like this would be good for people like me. I see a lot people making new threads with questions, maybe we could post all those here in REW topic, so everything is in one place and everyone can learn from it. If mods think otherwise please remove this, or if they are with that please make it sticky?

So i will start with something like this, i think there is a nice explanation to how to start with REW and make sure initial settings are correct.




Here is plenty of info people might find helpful ( just hope is fine with rules to post link to other forums)

 
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KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
There is a dedicated thread here too, just that it's in the DIY subs and speakers section:

(DIY) Subwoofer Setup using REW

Still worth bringing to people's attention here though, because I imagine that many sub owners will not venture into the DIY section if they own a commercial sub already. :)
 

maxkolonko123

Active Member

Yeah over AVS not here though

There is a dedicated thread here too, just that it's in the DIY subs and speakers section:

(DIY) Subwoofer Setup using REW

Still worth bringing to people's attention here though, because I imagine that many sub owners will not venture into the DIY section if they own a commercial sub already. :)

Didn't notice that one :blush:, but i've seen a lot people here posting question regards sub eq etc etc thought would be nice to have here all info + people asking here rather making new topic.
 

Jenz

Well-known Member
Here's a question I've not seen answered?

I have the option to use REW/UMIK-1 on my Windows 10 Laptop or my Macbook Air. Has anyone tried both and determined the "better" option? Ideally for later use with BEQ, MiniDSP 2x4 HD?
 

Conrad.

Moderator
I have both options, macbook pro and windows 10. My Windows 10 machine is my HTPC and I used to route my audio through JRiver for the PEQ so I had to use that machine, using the mac would be without the EQ. That's a pretty specific use case though.

Now I'd use my macbook:
- it means I don't have to turn the PC or projector on (both of which make noise).
- macs don't need to use ASIO to be able to see the full complement of channels which makes for a much simpler set-up and it's more stable overall.

One disadvantage, for me at least, is that my minidsp is hardwired in to the windows PC so if I want to apply the EQ from REW into the minidsp, I have to switch machines or RDP.

No difference in terms of functionality or quality in REW though.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
I just did some measurements to compare generating filters for my MiniDSP for each sub separately, verses as a pair. Both subs are the same distance from the MLP (both front corners) and the room is pretty symmetrical. I think the filters created for the combined pair looks marginally better to my eyes. I will be running a Dirac calibration, with a target curve on top, so I'm aiming for a flat response at this point. I thought it might be of interest here though:

Separate vs single EQ.jpg


I also measured the left and right subs separately, then used REW trace arithmetic to add them together for a 'theoretical' version of both subs. This is then compared to the actual measurement of both subs, shown below. I didn't move the mic, so I guess that helps, but it's interesting how REW can be used to analyse results even if you don't actually measure certain combinations.

(This is my 'raw' sub response prior to any EQ):

Both subs measured vs theoretical.jpg


I was planing on investigating MSO, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort with two symmetrical subs and given the results in the top trace. More time for actual listening and watching though, which is always good. :)
 

Conrad.

Moderator
If you have the measurements for each sub with a timing reference, you don't need to do the trace arithmetic. You can use the alignment tool to see the combined response.

Definitely add the EQ to all subs together. I was very surprised when I learned that but ti really does work very well.

The only exception I've found is for a VNF sub that's right behind my couch, adding that in to the mix didn't work well so I eqd it separately.

Nice response though, what does it look like below 10Hz?
 

Jenz

Well-known Member
Here's a question I've not seen answered?

I have the option to use REW/UMIK-1 on my Windows 10 Laptop or my Macbook Air. Has anyone tried both and determined the "better" option? Ideally for later use with BEQ, MiniDSP 2x4 HD?
Wonderful response. My MacBook it is :clap:
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Nice response though, what does it look like below 10Hz?

It rolls off fairly quickly as I'm using iNuke6000DSP amps and they are only 15" drivers. This was done on a different day, but the mic in (near enough) the same spot and the same REW EQ applied to both subs and Dirac off:

From 4Hz measurement.jpg


I've got a Buttkicker shaker fitted to my seat so that helps extend the very low end tactile response a bit. :)
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
I realised that one of my REW measures from yesterday gives a good example of adding a second sub in terms of dB boost. Typically stacking two subs should give a 6dB boost over a single one, but non co-located subs may not gain as much as 6dB, especially if not equidistant from the MLP.

Since mine are identical subs/amps, in the front corners and equidistant from the MLP then it seems from this trace that I get pretty much the full 6dB gain across the typical <80Hz range. This is my 'raw' response, no EQ at all and these are DIY subs in a sealed box. Room gain helps me here too, so EQ can sort that as shown in my trace posted last night.

Just thought it might be of interest to anyone considering a second sub:

L R Both no EQ.jpg


Where the two subs are close in response, it's easier to see the dual sub gain: Example being at 20Hz each sub hits 92dB in this measure, both together hits 98dB.

I also found that I can reduce that 80Hz dip by adding 2mS delay to the right hand sub (I used the REW align function to test for this, so haven't measured to confirm). This didn't impact on the rest of the response, though adding more delay did. Might try this next time I have my UMIK out.
 

PaulDavidThomas

Active Member
I'm using a MacBook Pro. I've got a UMIK-1 and following the very useful introduction to REW ( ) and after measuring and using the EQ tool produced a target EQ response file ( text file ).

Are their any Mac Applications that I can use to apply these to my Mac ?? I love the look of Rogue Amoeba's "SoundSource" or eqMac. But I cannot see how to import the exported results from REW ?
 

Conrad.

Moderator
You can use JRiver, that has complete PEQ control, although I've found it to be less accurate at lower frequencies than the minidsp.

As for importing, I don't know of any tool that will auto import other than those listed in the EQ device list in REW. But if it's 20 filters that won't take too long to manually enter, and it only needs doing once.
 

PaulDavidThomas

Active Member
Thanks conrad, I'll go have a look at JRiver.

I will see if SoundSouce will allow me to apply all 20 filters. It only seems to have a 10 band EQ ( but the way the app interface works seems like it might be able to have more ). If this is the case, then yes, it would be easier to do by hand once I figure out what the file output by REW means and how I set those definitions in SoundSource.

Are you essentially indicating there are NO Mac Apps (that you know of) that will accept the files produced by REW ? And the only things would be those listed in the Equaliser section of the EQ tool -

TMREQ, FBQ2496, SMS-1,DSP-30,MiniDSP, MiniDSP 2x 4 HD ... ( ect )

I was hoping to use my Mac to see if the difference of applying the changes were noticeable before spending funds on some actually hardware that would allow these files to be imported.

I have to say, the UI on SoundSource is lovely. I wish more Mac apps looked this good.... I've emailed SoundSource's developers to ask this question.
 

Conrad.

Moderator
There's none that I know of. Usually you need specific hardware to implement PEQ well, or maybe you could do it with custom software, I haven't seen anything. If you find something, I'd be very interested.

It needs to be capable of acting as a driver (or be a full function media player too) so that all sound can be routed through it. Doing it on the Mac also means that that's the only source EQd. If you have other sources then they don't get the same treatment. It's one reason why I dropped JRiver, it doesn't do my PS4. Doing my EQ in the processor/minidsp means that anything routed through that would be EQd.

In REW what I do is, with the EQ filters window open, click through the list of EQ devices that REW has presets for and look at the changes it makes to the available filters. Sometimes it changes the number of filters, sometimes it changes the filter types. I choose the one that most closely matches my target EQ device. For JRiver I let REW use as many filters of any type that it wants, JRiver supports unlimited EQ and pretty much every type of filter you could imagine. My processor only supports 5 band PEQ so I either choose a target device with only five bands, or I uncheck 15 from the default meaning that REW will work with the remaining five. I don't think I've ever seen REW output filters that aren't PK though so the type is less important.

For importing, I don't even know that all the devices listed support import/export, just that there's a preset for correctly setting the available filters (number and type) that the target device supports. From memory, the Behringer 1124 doesn't have the ability to import from a file, but it's been years since I owned one so I might be misremembering.

MiniDSP devices use a standard format called biquads that I also don't really understand. :)
 

PaulDavidThomas

Active Member
Actually Conrad. I've had a bit more of a play with SoundSource.

It looks like it can take advantage of a 32 band eq. In fact Apple includes a set of about 15 system filters you can add ( and layer ) onto the output. Which in my case is USB -> Behringer UCA202 -> Optical to Active Speakers with DAC built in.

I'm using Mac OS 10.15.5 and I think these built in Apple Filters were introduced 'recently ish'.
 

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PaulDavidThomas

Active Member
conrad, thank god you don't understand biquads, I nearly had to determine the ins and outs of E Type CirClips and the spec's of them, I decided I'd rather just grab a beer ! Sometimes in life you need to let things go and just know ' they do things ' ! An inquisitive mind is useful at times and very annoying at others.
 

Conrad.

Moderator
You don't want graphic EQ though, you want PEQ. The soundsource PEQ entry tool looks like someone tried to build something in the most complex way possible. Why not just allow someone to, you know, type the three numbers in?

Oh, and the PEQ in soundsource only goes down to 20Hz.
Just grab a trial of JRiver and use that. You can turn all filters on and off with a single click.
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Quite a cool new feature in yesterday's release of REW (Beta 54 onwards).
In the SPL & Phase chart, shift click and drag allows you to create a window that shows you the slope and the variance in that window. It can be hard to see how a response it tracking to a non-flat target, this generates a sloped target based on the response and gives you min/max, slope, and variance.

You can also drag the ends to resize the window, and click and drag the window to move it.

sub slope.jpg
 

maxkolonko123

Active Member
Quite a cool new feature in yesterday's release of REW (Beta 54 onwards).
In the SPL & Phase chart, shift click and drag allows you to create a window that shows you the slope and the variance in that window. It can be hard to see how a response it tracking to a non-flat target, this generates a sloped target based on the response and gives you min/max, slope, and variance.

You can also drag the ends to resize the window, and click and drag the window to move it.

View attachment 1317835
Damn that output below 10hz looks sweet :D
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Well, if I can demo the feature and show off my response, why not :devil:
 

Jenz

Well-known Member
My UMIK-1 and MiniDSP 2x4HD should be here in a week or so and therefore I modelled my room and current Sub (XTZ Cinema 1x12) in REW Room Simulator. Any initial indications on what REW is telling me?

Room_Simulation_and_REW_V5_20_Beta_55_and_Home_Cinema.jpg
 

Conrad.

Moderator
No major nulls, which is what you want to watch for. Those peaks are easily defeatable and the rise from 60Hz down could help, depending on if you want to dial in a house curve or run flat.

The 110Hz dip is a speaker placement issue and won't be solved with integration or the minidsp eq so I wouldn't worry about it.

Actually, I just noticed, you're running your crossover at 120Hz to your mains?
 

Jenz

Well-known Member
No major nulls, which is what you want to watch for. Those peaks are easily defeatable and the rise from 60Hz down could help, depending on if you want to dial in a house curve or run flat.

The 110Hz dip is a speaker placement issue and won't be solved with integration or the minidsp eq so I wouldn't worry about it.

Actually, I just noticed, you're running your crossover at 120Hz to your mains?
Yes I have been running my M&K LCR THX currently set to 120Hz. My Audyssey sets them to 40Hz :eek: but i bumped them up. Hence the 120Hz setting you see here in REW. The sub crossover on the physical sub switch is set to max (160Hz).
 

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