Review of DVDR725H

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by stanleyntl, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. stanleyntl

    stanleyntl
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    How come this (Philips DVDR725H) was judged okay compared to the HDRW720 in What Video ? only the hard drive size has changed!
    The smaller hd model was slated on picture quality, yet the new model gets the thumbs up.
    Consistency - not! :rolleyes:
    What Videos reviews are as helpful as chocolate teapots! :devil:
     
  2. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    Are these online reviews, or paper only?
     
  3. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Paper only for a few months then we appear online. Makes you go out and buy the magazine Jethro.

    Naturally it will always depend on the views of the person reviewing it - and how thoroughly they test it. Given that he says there are other slicker and more sophesticated models on the market (namely the Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba and Pioneer ranges) I would exactly say the review was a ringing endorsement of the machine though.
     
  4. stanleyntl

    stanleyntl
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    Heaven forfend that I buy a Philips!
    How can the 725H improve on the earlier models recording pitfalls? :D
     
  5. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    It could come with a built-in projector

    But it still wouldn't cut any ice here
     
  6. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Not if it's rubbish no. Only interested in decent products here Jethro. What amuses me most is even this "pro" review states that other DVD recorders are better - which is essentially what most people here say - so why you and the rest of the Philips faction feel 'hard done by' is really beyond my understanding!
     
  7. bluraymond

    bluraymond
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    well as a newbie I would have to say in defence of philips
    at least they have got the guts to go with the own favoured
    format and although some have failed (Video2000,CDI etc)
    if it was not for there work in the conception of
    compact discs we would not be enjoying DVD recorders today.
     
  8. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Interesting view. The DVD Alliance, which created the 'plus' format was actually the last format to emerge - the drive to create it emerging when Philips was 'snubbed' over the DVD-ROM specifications. Accordingly Philips and a handful of other companies decided rather than use the existing formats (DVD-RAM had been developed several years before hand by Panasonic and Sony) they would develop their own to ensure they got the licencing. Can't entirely blame them for that - they are a business after all - but be under no illusion: DVD+RW/+R exists solely because it makes money for members of the DVD Alliance, not because it offers any substantial difference over the Pioneer developed DVD-RW/-R. Ironically Pioneer even had a DVD recorder on the market in Japan whilst DVD+ was still on the drawing board...

    What I will say in their defence is I doubt we would be enjoying CHEAP DVD recorders if it weren't for Philips. They aggressively drove down the costs (in Europe at least) which has been good as it means the competition has had to follow. Unfortunately for Philips they have been unable to maintain the quality unlike Panasonic - and even worse they have simply become unreliable.
     
  9. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley
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    "Philips" + "unreliable" ??

    Don't know what you mean ..........

    (takes tongue back out of cheek)
     
  10. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    Although people say it was 'slated', I didn't think the reviews on the HDRW720 was really that bad - quite a fair assessment really - dunno what they said about the 725
     
  11. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    The November 2004 What Video review was the best IMHO - four 'top brand' HDD/DVDR tested - Panasonic, JVC, Pioneer and Philips. All scored highly (5/5) except the Philips (3/5)... Well worth reading for anyone considering the Philips models - even if you don't rate the reviews it clearly illuminates the 'issues' that hamper the Philips models.
     
  12. phelings

    phelings
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    Rasczak,I was told on Digital Spy by 720 owner that it(HDD) was capable of dividing titles,editing chapters etc.It was claimed that the only thing it could not do was reencode and resequence.
    If this is so,then it does not really match that of the W V review ,or that of the 725.
     
  13. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Yes you can - but as with DVD+ editting you can't do it well - cuts made are inaccurate. Which negates the whole point of having edit features.

    Two rather large omissions. The inability to re-encode makes the machine useless for anyone with a decent TV as you need to record everything in 2hr or 2hr 30min modes which is far from acceptable on any DVD recorder. The inability to use Playlists makes the machine useless for those wanting to create (e.g.) music complications or conduct non-destructive editting.

    As the review states - there much better out there...
     
  14. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    I can edit within a frame (or as near as the Tosh) - Not sufficient for a Film Director, but how accurate does it need to be?

    I record everything at 2:30 - I cannot tell the difference between that and Live TV - I am watching on 32" Pixel Plus from 2.5 meters - my eyesight isn't defective

    If 2:30 is "not acceptable" - then why on earth would you want it on a DVD? - It's either good enough to watch, or it isn't
    If i felt 2:30 wasn't good enough to watch - i would record at 1 hour & archive it the same way (just like any other machine)

    You could say, you have 'a choice' to store degraded archives - but you cannot say it's "not acceptable" & at the same time 'accept it'

    "better" is a relative term & depends on personal perspective

    having more editing facilities - would be "better" for someone who 'likes' editing, and is 'happy' to put the extra time into it

    having more editing facilities (or even facilities per se) - could be joe plug-n-go's worst nightmare

    consider this:

    Whilst the Philips can Divide

    + thanks to EPG (which chops up even long recording sessions into program-size, 'titled' pieces)
    + Dividing small chunks can fragment the drive (leading to noise, irratic playback or even failure)
    + Hide facility retains original copy

    I honestly haven't used the Divide facility since the day i got it

    .
     
  15. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Rubbish! Or are you now suggesting that the Philips has GOP control? :laugh: or that the Philips now uses VR markers for precision editting? :laugh: With the Philips the file format is limited to DVD-Video mode - this means cuts can only be made where they will be compatible. I suggest you experiment with your machine a little more Jethro. Still it just goes to show the point I've made many times before - people like Jethro are dangerous as:
    a) don't understand the limitations their own machine has and,
    b) comment on machines they haven't even used - we all remember Jethro getting caught out trying to give (inaccurate) advice on the Toshiba

    Which sums it up really doesn't it? Jethro remains a Philips fan simply because he has a small TV. Perhaps when he upgrades to a larger screen, a projector or to a high resolution one in due course he will accept that what he has been told time and time again on this forum is correct. The bottomline is, yes, if you have a bottom end screen (which 32" CRT screens are) then 2hr 30min recordings will look OK. But when you upgrade you will be seriously disappointed in your recordings. Most of us here have seen it many times before. :rolleyes: It's a pity as the only person they fool is themselves.

    Indeed. But the Philips has so many "issues" that the average reasonable person discounts it - especially on these boards which are aimed at mid to high end users - the Philips just isn't in that league (and doesn't pretend to be). :lesson:

    I would urge anyone who doubts how poor the Philips HDD/DVDRs are to read the November What Video & Widescreen Enterainment magazine comparisons of the JVC, Pioneer, Panasonic and Philips HDD/DVDRs - nothing more clearly demonstrates the weakness of the Philips both in performance and features. :thumbsdow
     
  16. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    You're talking here about "files" and how best (precisely) you can chop them up - because that's how you've defined editing - that's fair enough, but I'm not

    I'm talking about frame editing using "Hide" feature - which basically creates a small playlist for the main title - as such doesn't have the 'file' restrictions that you prefer to talk about



    .
     
  17. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    You really, really need to look into your machine more closely. Unlike any other HDD/DVDR combi your Philips DVD recorder lacks any ability to re-encode - do you understand that? What is on the HDD gets dubbed to DVDR? Ergo everything on your HDD is in DVD-Video compliant format - do you see the connection now?

    Whilst you may THINK it offers frame accurate editting infact it does not. At best it allows cuts on the I Frame - anything else is impossible in Video mode - but in reality it allows cuts where the DVD-Video file structure can be suitably modified whilst maintaining compatibility. This generally translates into cuts not being EXACTLY where you put them - whilst you may lack the setup/kit to appreciate this now you will as you upgrade. Indeed in my own tests I found cuts could be as much as 0.5 second out - not much on paper but enough to render it useless by most people's standards...
     
  18. JamesL

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    I concurr with Rasczak's points. Making a comment that the Toshiba's editing offers the same as the Philips DVDR-725 is always going to steer you into trouble JethroUK. Comparing the editing abilities of the best available (Tosh) to the worst (Philips) is brave by the best of standards. It's also about as far from reality as you can get.
     
  19. phelings

    phelings
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    While a 32"CRT may be classed as a bottom end tv on here,I prefer its sharp realistic picture quality to any of the plastic,unnatural dross displayed on any plasma or LCD screen-unless you are 30 foot away
     
  20. phelings

    phelings
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    Despite Rasczak's comments on the Philips,I think the review in WV gave them an unfairly harsh treatment.Ignoring the fact that most Philips dvd recorders are poor unreliable heaps bound to crash within a year,I think the editing features should be mentioned more,with detail about how they are imperfect.The 725 review made no mention of any ability to divide titles.This is an important feature for dvd collectors(except those poor sods who have a Sony and won't admit it)who may wish to bulk copy overnight from Sky+.The WV review skipped over the editing features too briefly
     
  21. musukebba

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    No nit-picking intended, but that's quite a sweeper of a statement. Some would say 14" is the bottom end for domestic TV colour displays.

    IMSO a 32" CRT screen is certainly capable of demonstrating the difference in quality of M2 vs. M2x. But probably not with Pixel Plus turned on.
     
  22. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    I was thinking more of a CRT projector actually. ;) That said I am not going to get drawn into a CRT v Plasma v LCD v Projector argument - that is too off topic - but I think most here will agree that 32" widescreens, whatever the format, are not sufficiently large enough to really appreciate the differences between low and mid end kit. Bobbles case was the classic example of this...

    Yes fair enough - but a 32" widescreen TVs are very small making it hard to fully appreciate PQ limitations. As you say the use of Pixel Plus will add further processing to the picture further hiding the limitations of the DVD recorder.
     
  23. bluraymond

    bluraymond
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  24. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    But if that's what Philips had wanted to develop then they could have worked on a custom solution on DVD-RW - for example Pioneer matched 'features' such as lossless linking. In short bluraymond you shouldn't get sucked into believing all the promotional c*** that surrounds these DVDR formats. Pioneer's format got accepted first, Philips wasn't happy so they went their own way - fair enough as there was lots of money at stake. But that is the only reason we now have four (soon to be six) almost identical DVDR formats.
     
  25. JethroUK

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    I didn't think I'd have to wait too long before I found 'another' Tosh user, struggling to edit within 4 frames - using GOP mode (whatever that is), and this cropped up:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1463220&postcount=4



    Despite what you say about Philips editing - I've dismissed it for 2 reasons:

    1/ your persistance to refer to file type structure and it's restrictions, and not address playlist file structure - which obviously does not have the same restrictions

    2/ It's inconsistant with my own experience (i can edit to a frame - using Hide feature)
     
  26. What Happend

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    I have owned the HDRW720 for two week and love it. I have used a DVD recorder with tuner for the last 6 months and it was better then a VCR but didn't change the way I wacthed TV.

    I think all the negative comments about the HDRW720 are posted on this forum is because it is reviewed as a DVD recorder. The real feature of the HDRW its PVR abilities. With the large HD (120 gig on my model) I hardly have to burn any DVD discs. I have a PC with IEEE1394 card for editing my miniDV videos and wouldn't want to do this with the 720. When I wan't to archive my shows or movies that I record I wouldn't wan't to re-encode them and lose quality.

    The free Guide+ and the options to record shows weekly or regularly (matched based on time and title) is great. I hardly ever watch live TV and the 720 multi-tasks so well that watch recorded shows while recording live tv. The live TV buffer (upto 6hours) is a feature all HD DVD recorders should add.

    My perfect DVD-HD recorder would record to the buffer and HD in MJPEG mode which is MPEG compadible and allows frame be frame editing. Then would allow nightly 2 pass VBR compression to save space. I am not aware of any DVD-HD that allows this so the HDRW720 is the best at the moment for a no monthly fee PVR.

    I paid $300 US no rebates involved. I am thinking about adding the $50 extended warrenty based on all the user reviews on philips quality.
     
  27. bluraymond

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  28. Rasczak

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    Excuse me? How do you mean?

    That because DVD-RAM and DVD-RW originally had different purposes in mind. DVD-RW was designed to be a highly compatible media, DVD-RAM (which was invented earlier) was meant as a format that could withstand a high number of read/write cycles as required by PC/video use.
     
  29. bluraymond

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    What I mean about compatabilty is that this is the unique selling point of +rw.
    If -rw was meant to be about compatability with existing dvd players, you would
    not have 2 modes of recording for recording.
     
  30. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    But, from a technical perspective, it's not unique - hence why I was talking about lossless linking. Potentially exactly the same system could have been developed for DVD-RW. The reason so-called +VR was never developed for DVD-RW is simplt because their was little/no market for it: those who want to edit either use VR mode, those who want compatibility use Video mode, those who want both use a HDD/DVDR or a PC. If "compatible editing" had been what had drove Philips to plus then they could simply have saved their time and custmer confusion by developing it on the existing DVD-RW media. However, as they were simply interested in a piece of the licencing pie, they decided to develop their own format.
     

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