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REVENGE OF THE SITH - Anyone else agree with me?

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by MJeeves, Oct 14, 2005.

  1. MJeeves

    MJeeves
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    I have VERY mixed feelings about this film.

    Overall I really liked it but it was FAR from flawless.

    I made the mistake of reading the novelisation before seeing the film and I felt that Anakin's turn to the dark side was nowhere near as well done in the film as it was in the book. In the book, you sense Anakin's torture and inner turmoil through almost all of the (often bad) decisions he makes. He is a truly tortured person and a tragic soul. In the film his turn is too quick and sudden. It's just not convincing. I can't blame Hayden Christensen because I think he does the best he can with what he is given, but in the book you feel sorry for Anakin.

    I mean... He is born into slavery, is seperated from his mother and friends (the only people he's ever known), he is prophecized as being The Chosen One and has everyone's expectation put on him, he suffers horrific nightmares which seem to come true, his mother (who he left behind) is tortured to death and dies in his arms, he loses his arm in combat to Count Dooku, he is seperated from his wife due to the Clone Wars, he fights fiercely and bravely for the goodies (so he thinks) and is NEVER given any credit for it (especially from the unloving Jedi), he again gets tortured by nightmares of losing he's loved one (perhaps only loved one), he is manipulated superbly by his mentor and only friend Palpatine, he is NEVER fully trusted by the Jedi which leads him to become alienated and bitter toward them, Palpatine uses this and his fear of Padme's death to manipulate him further, Anakin is well intentioned but he makes a terrible decision when Mace Windu faces Palpatine, starts to lose it BIG TIME and falls into Palpatine's trappings even more, then the poor guy has a phsychological breakdown, does some truly evil things (for the one person who seems to love him and trust him - Palps), and then gets ALL his limbs severed off and gets burned alive! That's GOTTA HURT!

    I mean, has a character EVER gone through so much pain and tragedy and anguish in ANY film as much as this guy. Then whats left of his mangled, burned torso is placed in an iron-lung life support suit and is told that HE and HE ALONE is the cause of his loved ones' deaths. His name (Anakin Skywalker) becomes shunned and forgotten and he is Darth Vadar, another slave, this time to Palaptine and his Governor's. Born a slave to die a slave (only as a crispy fried half man half machine in a black life support suit).

    ****... he can't even use the funky lightning because he has no proper limbs! I feel sorry for him in book.

    In the book, Anakin's fall and emotional collapse is so well done, yet in the film it is nowhere near as effecting. Especially when you consider what he goes through. Anyone else agree?

    Also I felt the effects were TOO MUCH and a little distracting in their sheer overkill.

    All in all, a good send-off for Star Wars but NOT great in my opinion. Still... I'll get the DVD for sure.
     
  2. KevD

    KevD
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    While I agree that the book does better justice to that part of the storyline, I was in no way dissapointed by the way it was done on screen. I have heard it said that Anakins turning on the screen is too quick before and I have to disagree with that, Its been going on for 2 films. In those films you witness all of the things you mention like his mothers death, the Jedi councils doubting if him and its built up.
    I always think reading the book first is a big mistake for something that is designed for the cinema, you will almost always feel let down as all the storylines you created your own way will be someone elses idea.
    Great Movie - Not Long till it arrives :clap:
     
  3. shaithis

    shaithis
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    You could give him the best plot and story ever written and he still would be totally and utterly unconvincing.

    He spoiled the last 2 films for me, absolutely terrible actor........Lucas should be hung, drawn and quartered for casting him.

    That aside :devil: : I am not sure if the length of the films left much room for fleshing out further. I would love to have seen EP3 and maybe even EP2 split into 2 parts each, with a lot more plot and pychological going-ons.

    The worst 2 bits for me were his almost sudden "Im good, oh no actually Im evil" moment and the fact they seemed to actually put HC in the DV suit at the end......and he looks like a complete weed compared to the original vader, let alone that pathetic "noooooooooo" bit :(
     
  4. MJeeves

    MJeeves
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    I've seen Hayden Christensen in only two other films "SHATTERED GLASS" and "LIFE AS A HOUSE" and he was fantastic in BOTH. I think he is a good actor who just struggles with the blue screen stuff and with Lucas's wooden dialogue. I agree about the "Nooooooo" bit by the way.
     
  5. Donnacha

    Donnacha
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    MJeeves - I think you countered your own arguement a bit, giving all the reasons that he's had a tough life. They are exactly the reasons he turned to the dark side in the end, spread over the 3 films, which to me is plenty time for him to turn bad - its not just that one scene with Palps and Windu.

    When I first saw the film I didn't feel it was done too quick as you have to consider the two films before and where he's come from and what's happened to him.

    I'm really looking forward to seeing it at home on the big screen and glorious suuround sound.
     
  6. MJeeves

    MJeeves
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    I just don't like those 5 minutes after the Palps / Windu fight: SPOLIERS

    After Anakin helps Palpatine kill Mace Windu he falls to his knees and cries out... "Oh NO. What have I done!"
    Palpatine comes back with "Help me. Join me. The Dark Side is more powerful. We can rule together".
    Anakin gets up composes himself and says "Oh, alright. Go on then."

    Sorry... I don't buy it.
     
  7. MJeeves

    MJeeves
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    It was too rushed. A bit more anguish and torment was needed. What WE needed was to KNOW that Anakin himself realised that having wasted Mace there was NO way back. That would've been cool. A bit more time and thought and the scene may have worked but as it is... sorry... it's weak. IMHO.
     
  8. MJeeves

    MJeeves
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    So, when Mace Windu and Palpatine are fighting is Palpatine REALLY getting his ass smacked or is he pretending so he can lure Anakin? What ya think?
     
  9. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    If it had to get a score out of ten from me, it'd get about 4/10.
     
  10. Nebby

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    Totally agree with you MJEEVES re HC's performance in Shattered Glass.

    You can pretty much lay all of the problems with Episodes I, II and III at the door of Mr Lucas - rubbish scripts, rubbish story, rubbish direction and so on.
     
  11. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Nebby sums it up nicely for me:)

    And the transition to the dark was far too abrupt and poorly executed to be convincing...
     
  12. TheBigApple

    TheBigApple
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    "Where is Padme" :rotfl:

    The terrifying image of Vader I had is destroyed with one line.
     
  13. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    It didn't happen quite like that.

    Anakins move to the dark side started in the second film after he kills the sandmen. It didn't happen in those five minutes.

    He needed the skills to save Padme and only Palpatine could help him. If Analkin really loved Padme it would be a easy and quick decision to make. He isn't going to think it over is he.
     
  14. Sick Boy

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    Got to admit. I love star wars, always have. But my youth was spent watching ANH at least 50 times. ESB less times as it took an age to be shown on tv, but more since I 'aged'. Watched ROTJ tonight and just thought how it is just like the new trilogy.

    Our views of the new trilogy will never live upto the originals, but ESB aside they are all pretty much as bad (but not BAD) as each other.
     
  15. Pacha

    Pacha
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    I have to disagree but each to their own opinion. I thought the scene gives a massive human element to the character that was missing. It makes you realise hoe tortured the character is. I love the 'Noooooooo....' bit for the very same reasons.He now has nothing left except anger.
    That said I also agree with everyone who thought the scene where he pledges himself to the dark side with Palpatine was rushed and spoiled by Lucas. This scene is THE pivotal moment in the entire 6 films and he screwed up.
     
  16. Fast Jon

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    I'm afraid I can't give you an opinion. After the colossal pile of steaming ordure that was The Phantom Menace I vowed to avoid any further episodes. :devil:
     
  17. Donnacha

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    Well, I thought that it was handled alright.

    You had the scene where Anakin and Padme are staring out the windows before the Windu/ Palps fight. Anakin knew he had to do soemthing to save her and was contemplating stopping the Jedi from capturing / killing his only hope of keeping her alive. Also he was starting to believe that the Jedi were trying to take over.

    Yes, I think Palpatine was holding back against Mace, just to lure Anakin into the dark side.
     
  18. Racquel Darrian

    Racquel Darrian
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    I think Pal. is getting his ass kicked. Windu has him on the floor and is turning Palps. efforts, to fight back, against him hence his face becoming disfigured. No matter what Palp. did Windu would have turned the power against him using his light sabre.
    Palp. is lost and his only hope is if Anakin helps out.
     
  19. pmc

    pmc
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    I've never read any Star Wars books so can only comment on the films. It seems obvious to me though that Anakins turn to the dark side is going to be done better on the page than on the screen. It's about his personal journey from good to evil and that involves a lot of internal dialogue, something that could never be represented on screen (unless they got Ingmar Bergman to do it, now there's a thought!)

    From the movie point of view, fundamentally all the elements are there. Anakin does have a terrible life and faces huge injustice and tragedy. As he is always rather weak and arrogant its perfectly believable that events would make him bitter and angry, thus ready to turn the dark side. The problem comes in the telling of that story. The scripts for Episode I and II and absolutely terrible. The story is there (apart from all the trade war :censored: ) The effects are superb but the storytelling is just awful. You can't really blame the actors, anyone would struggle to get a performance out the words they are forced to utter.

    Lucas should have handed the story over to a really good script writer and let him create a version of the story that worked. Instead he was too into his 'Saturday matinee' recreation and deliberately made the movies a modern recreation of the 50's Buck Rogers style stuff he grew up with. That's all fine and well, except it's not what the story demanded or the public wanted.

    The 3rd one went some way to redeem the whole thing. It was much, much better than the first two. There are rumours of an extended version with more about the destruction of the Jedi. If so it could be really good.

    All in all, for me Lucas created a great story 30 years ago and did a great job of bringing part of it to life at the time. Then he got old and rich, and too much up his own arse.

    BTW, I think Palpatine does let Windu win. Clearly he is the most powerful user of the force, equalled (perhaps) only by Yoda. Even then, the fact that Yoda never suspects him of being a Sith makes him more powerful IMHO. I don't like the fact the Palpatine is disfigured by his fight with Windu though. It would have been better if his physical condition in ROTJ was shown to be down to the corrupting onfluence of the dark side. Kind of like Gollum and the ring in LORT.
     
  20. pmc

    pmc
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    One more thing.

    Imagine what would he happened if George Lucas had stepped aside and handed his Star Wars story over to Peter Jackson to tell it. Wow!!
     
  21. Donnacha

    Donnacha
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    I've read elsewhere that the disfigured look of Palpatine is actually his true form, which was disguised by the force to look normal as the senator/grand chancellor. It wasn't Mace that disfigured him, but he used it as a tool to lure Anakin, by pretending to be disfigured, where in fact it was how he looked all along!
     
  22. pmc

    pmc
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    That makes some sense. He didn't seem particularly upset at his condition. Also, in the earlier films he keeps his face covered, but what little you see looks like the classic, ugly Emperor.
     
  23. MJeeves

    MJeeves
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    I just can't help feel a bit sorry for Ani...

    I mean burned alive, losing all your limbs, all your family and your only loved one... s**t. That is a bad run of luck (or destiny!)
     
  24. Donnacha

    Donnacha
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    I know...but he does get Natalie Portman!! Small price to pay??!
     
  25. NicolasB

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    SPOILER WARNING



    He's pretending. Definitely. If you want evidence for that (beyond the fact that virtually everything Palpatine ever does is sneaky and manipulative) consider the way he "suddenly recovers" to be able to blast Mace Windu out of the window with lightning bolts, and consider also the fact that even Yoda is not powerful enough to defeat Palpatine one-on-one. Mace is only the second baddest jedi in the galaxy (after Yoda).

    You have to read between the lines a bit with Palpatine. For example, at the beginning of the film when Obi Wan and Anakin are trapped in the force field on the enemy ship, Obi Wan says something like "hold on, we're smarter than this, aren't we?" Indeed they are - what's happening is that Palpatine's dark side abilities are jamming Obi Wan and Anakin's Jedi senses so that they are unable to sense or predict danger - and doing so in a way that is subtle enough that they don't realise it.

    Palpatine is also active during the fight between Anakin and Obi Wan and Dooku. Compare that fight with the one in episode 2: then, Obi Wan was out-light-sabered by Dooku, but that was all. In episode 3, Dooku throws him around like a rag doll. This is because Palpatine is in the room and using his own dark side powers to block Obi Wan's defences. By contrast, Anakin is able to defeat Dooku, despite not being significantly more powerful than Obi Wan - that, again, is Palpatine's influence. Now he is no longer helping Dooku, he may even be actively hindering him, because he has already decided that he wants Anakin to kill Dooku and take his place.
     
  26. the klang

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    im sure i read somewhere that lucas had a target audience of around 13 years of age and was not aiming hes film at adults,my point being if you really want to know how well made the films are try asking a 13 year old.
    having said that i love scifi in any shape good or bad,but even i felt a little disappointed at the speed by which skywalker turned.
     
  27. pmc

    pmc
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    He must know some very strange 13 year old's if he thinks they'll find a movie about a trade war interesting.
     
  28. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Oh, but the trade war was just a cover. The whole Naboo scenario is all about Darth Sidious getting Senator Palpatine elected as Chancellor of the Senate.
     
  29. Fordy

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    And a 13 year old is going to give a damn about politics in another galaxy.
     
  30. Racquel Darrian

    Racquel Darrian
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    Yeah! Jackson could have made it into Braindead 2. :rotfl:
     

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