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Returning VT20 and other people's experiences

Arctic Monkey

Novice Member
Hi all,

I've been reading the forums for a while now and was well aware of the 50Hz issues that plauged the VT20 before I purchased the TV just after christmas.Members on this forum had a variety of experiences with this particular issue so after going in the store and seeing Avatar in both 2D and 3D i took the plunge and bought the TV.

Now 3 months into owning the VT20 the 50Hz issue is driving me crazy. Football on this set is appaling and motion on SD and HD is dreadful with purple and red colours on skin and around objects when the camera moves fast. One thing that the set also suffers with in my experience is several feint lines across the screen when the camera pans up or down, does anyone suffer with this as I've not read about this particular problem? Its mainly against light backgrounds.

I went in today to Best Buy where i bought the set from. I explained to the manager the issues I was having and she said that they would have to contact panasonic as I've owned the set for longer than 28 days. As far as I'm aware they are sending a panasonic engineer over to my house in the next few days.

I would like to know other members experiences with trying to return the VT20 for the 50Hz issues and if they were successful or not. Ive read that several members have spoken to Panasonic and they just say the TV is within spec and im worried that the engineer will say the same thing when he comes over. Please tell me that there are a few of you that managed to return the set!?

I'm really hoping that I get a refund and that the VT30 has resloved these issues, but I have a nagging doubt that it wont be. Gutted as the 3D perfomance and blu ray is just stunning.

I look forward to your reading your thoughts and sorry for the long essay:smashin:
 
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Dextur

Well-known Member
I saw the 65" one pushing out avatar 3d , thought it was a great picture, it's absurd panasonic are shipping the unit out with issues this bad, it amazes me they dont have a 100 Percent return rate.

For the small issues I dislike on my kuro, I still wouldn't swap it for a vierra, panasonic treat their consumer Market to sub par units.
 
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Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Hello there mate, if the Panasonic repair dude says the set is within spec remind him that we are in a country that broadcasts 50hz signals and as its a tv it should be able to process these signals. As it cant it falls under the sales of goods act as not fit for purpose- in this case as a tv as it cant process UK signals correctly and as a result shouldnt be sold as such.
Now if he says Ive never heard of this, well kindly point out that there is loads of reports of this issue from many websites reporting this news and some of the leading sites such as this one got invited to Japan where the issue was brought up. Panasonic claim its been corrected this year so I would assume from that they know its a problem with this set.
Best of luck.

Regards

John
 

Eltee

Well-known Member
^ what he said. As far as a 100% return rate, not everyone has a duff screen from what I can tell. It'll be interesting to see what Panasonic can do to resolve the issue for those affected.
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Where did they claim that? AFAIK, they only just found out what was meant by the 50Hz issue.
Indeed you are right I was trying to remember what was said from the Japan visit...and I failed.:facepalm:
They did show however a football match to Phil and other reporters to show the smooth motion then it was pointed out to them. ;)
To quote Phil 'But I now know that they are fully aware of what it is'.

So if they claim they dont know then there telling fibs... or there failing to pass the info on to repair agents/are not working on a fix. :thumbsdow

I saw the 50hz issue on both the G20s I owned the 3 VT20 50" models I demoed and a 46" G20.
Not everyone sees it, and some of those that do are not botherd by it.

For me and the wife we didnt like it, she saw the 50hz bug when she watched her soaps.
 

davidcrofter

Well-known Member
I find it amazing that Panasonic seem to be getting away with so much!!:eek:

Taking into account:
The black level rise of 2009.
The 50hz bug/floating blacks of 2010 models.
The recent revelation that Panasonic engineers were not even aware EXACTLY what that bug was until a few weeks ago (until it was pointed out to them by Phil) - thus it was almost a given that the 2011 models would still exhibit the same faults.

We seem to be getting glowing review after glowing review AGAIN ... why is this??:thumbsdow
 

neilmcl

Well-known Member
We seem to be getting glowing review after glowing review AGAIN ... why is this??:thumbsdow
Maybe because it's not as bad as its been hyped up to be. Yes noticeable for the few videophiles but perfectly acceptable for the majority of owners. Also lets put it into perspective, I'll doubt you'll find many retail TVs, plasma or LCD, that don't exhibit there own issues.
 

Bumtious

Banned
I find it amazing that Panasonic seem to be getting away with so much!!:eek:

Taking into account:
The black level rise of 2009.
The 50hz bug/floating blacks of 2010 models.
The recent revelation that Panasonic engineers were not even aware EXACTLY what that bug was until a few weeks ago (until it was pointed out to them by Phil) - thus it was almost a given that the 2011 models would still exhibit the same faults.

We seem to be getting glowing review after glowing review AGAIN ... why is this??:thumbsdow
Ohh that's tempting.

Briefly, you are not going to spite the hand that feeds you. There are some carefully chosen words in one recent online review of the GT30 and you need to read those closely IE Pro1 seems to have floating blacks but THX does mode does not, but you cant adjust colour balance on THX this year. Reading into to this one again, its robbing Peter to pay Paul, this is the same as every year, and then spending longer with the set, you start to notice what other corners have been cut. My experience tells me from the Gamma reading shown that one issue is still certainly being masked.

See post below
 
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Bumtious

Banned
Maybe because it's not as bad as its been hyped up to be. Yes noticeable for the few videophiles but perfectly acceptable for the majority of owners. Also lets put it into perspective, I'll doubt you'll find many retail TVs, plasma or LCD, that don't exhibit there own issues.
I also agree with this, that is why you have to use reviews as guides not gospel. And go look for yourself, armed with what to look for, then you can make an informed decision on what you see and what suits you.
 

steverobertsbbc

Well-known Member
One thing that the set also suffers with in my experience is several feint lines across the screen when the camera pans up or down, does anyone suffer with this as I've not read about this particular problem? Its mainly against light backgrounds.
That sounds like an artefact of either digital noise reduction or Intelligent Frame Creation. I'd turn both off anyway. Actually, it would be interesting to know if the 50Hz problem was better or worse with IFC on.
 

Arctic Monkey

Novice Member
Steverobertsbbc-That sounds like an artefact of either digital noise reduction or Intelligent Frame Creation. I'd turn both off anyway. Actually, it would be interesting to know if the 50Hz problem was better or worse with IFC on.



I have both set to off, i hate the camcorder affect that IFC brings when switched on.

To answer your question regarding the 50Hz being better with IFC being switched on, the answer is no. It fixes the issue with false contouring on faces and objects but then introdues a whole load of other issues such as the camcorder affect and artifects around fast moving objects that are just as bad. IFC on football should be avoided at all costs.

My 42" philips LCD I had previously had no motion issues at all but did have bad input lag. However I spent 2000 pound on my VT20, a grand more than my old set. These issues should not be present on a set this expenisve, especially plasmas which are praised for how well it handels motion compared to LED/LCD.
 

death valley

Novice Member
Maybe because it's not as bad as its been hyped up to be. Yes noticeable for the few videophiles but perfectly acceptable for the majority of owners. Also lets put it into perspective, I'll doubt you'll find many retail TVs, plasma or LCD, that don't exhibit there own issues.
well, you don't have to be a videophile to see the VT20 problems...

think most owners are in denial since they can't believe a €2500 TV sets gives such obvious issues :D
 

interbear

Active Member
Jeez - I was about to press the button on either a GT20 or a VT20, either 42 or 46 inches, hoping to get a good deal before this year's models replace them.....as a Sky HD user, and avid football/movies watcher, this issue could be a deal-breaker.

I'm assuming Sky HD broadcast 50Hz of course - is that correct?

Cheers.
 

Paul Cooksley

Novice Member
Well, I have the V20 - exactly the same tv - without the 3D element.....

The 50hz bug is dreadful for me on this set. Now, I am not particularly "picky" when it comes to tv viewing. I don't consider myself one of these people who sits and watches their new tv just to "try and pick faults in it".

However - I see this - especially on video based material (like soaps etc) - it is simply appalling. People's faces turn a red/purple/green oily mess if they move quickly infront of the camera (skin tones and hair).

How on earth a tv costing as much as mine did (£1,200 at the begining of January this year) can exhibit this awful distracting feature is beyond me. How can Panasonic sell a set that is clearly unable to process 50hz signals correctly in a country that broadcasts in 50hz?

I am currently in dispute with my retailer about this (and other issues with the set - like floating blacks - which are also driving me mad). I notifed the retailer (a small independent dealer) in writing via email only 7 days into ownership of some of these issues. They now have the set at their showroom trying to "see" the issues I am referring to.

I shall want to fight this all the way, as there is no way I am prepared to spend out over £1,200 on a brand new flagship almost top of the range television - only to find that it can't process 50hz signals properly! That is what is boils down to - plain and simple.

Be glad also, like the OP, to see if anyone has had any joy from Panasonic in returning their set because of this reason...
 
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Arctic Monkey

Novice Member
Jeez - I was about to press the button on either a GT20 or a VT20, either 42 or 46 inches, hoping to get a good deal before this year's models replace them.....as a Sky HD user, and avid football/movies watcher, this issue could be a deal-breaker.

I'm assuming Sky HD broadcast 50Hz of course - is that correct?

Cheers.

Yes thats correct interbear. It depends what you will be using your new TV for though? If its soley for 3D, gaming and blu ray then i couldnt recommend this TV highly enough. The main reason for me pruchasing this set in the first place was that it displayed the best 2D (via Blu ray) and 3D images in the market.

However its appaling for sky HD and i wouldnt even bother with SD. SD is a complete mess. If you're a big watcher of football like me then again IMO this set isnt for you, although 3D football is amazing. The thing that annoys me the most about this set is none of the issues ive mentioned appear at 60Hz so why should it at 50Hz!

Good luck Paul and let me know how you get on with returning your TV. There must be people out there that have returned these sets for the 50Hz issues surely...?
 

Paul Cooksley

Novice Member
Good luck Paul and let me know how you get on with returning your TV. There must be people out there that have returned these sets for the 50Hz issues surely...?
Cheers.....:thumbsup:

I'd be very interested to know if this is the case.....!

I'll keep you posted!
 

Slugsy01

Well-known Member
I'd be keen to find out how this goes. I haven't had too bad a time with the 50hz stuff but the floating blacks seem to be getting worse and worse. On two particular programs, True Blood and Boardwalk Empire the contrast goes up and down like a yo yo! Very, very annoying!
 

interbear

Active Member
Thanks - Given that Sky HD is the majority of my usage it sounds that the 2010 Panny plasmas are best avoided then. I'm not a gamer, it's just good quality sports, movies and TV images that I'm after, all via a Sky HD box.

Couple of good reviews of the 2011 GT30 so far, hope they are better.

I'll also take a look at the Samsung D7000 LED. Great reviews but am a bit sceptical having always been told plasma was better for motion handling. Perhaps not any more!
 

cutthroat_jake

Standard Member
Just spoke to my retailer, a Panasonic dealer, about the TVs issues, and he immediately went on the defensive and claimed that no-one else had complained about the TV.
He did offer to have it collected and taken to the service centre, but I thought this pointless since Panasonic have said the problem can't be fixed.

CJ
 

BJQ1972

Well-known Member
I bought the 50" VT20 in june last year. After three months after many phone calls and e-mails Panasonic agreed to contact the retailer to facilitate a refund. However, the subsequent behaviour of the retailer was nothing short of a disgrace. After 8 months I finally received a refund for the TV. In the end it was Panasonic themselves who paid up.

I too am amazed by the many reviews which completely gloss over just how bad the problem is.
 

Bumtious

Banned
Thanks - Given that Sky HD is the majority of my usage it sounds that the 2010 Panny plasmas are best avoided then. I'm not a gamer, it's just good quality sports, movies and TV images that I'm after, all via a Sky HD box.

Couple of good reviews of the 2011 GT30 so far, hope they are better.

I'll also take a look at the Samsung D7000 LED. Great reviews but am a bit sceptical having always been told plasma was better for motion handling. Perhaps not any more!
Well I suggest you go look for yourself, because I don't see much of a change and if its sport you watch....be warned.

I have made comments about these new sets re pricing vs quality. Costs have gone up, they have more features, vat has gone up, the cabinets are far more stylish YET THE PRICES ARE THE SAME AS LAST YEAR. What corners have been cut.

Its only one "proper" review but in the benchmark test section NO ONE has picked up on "dead pixel in the centre of the screen" and "slight greeness on right hand side of panel" In my experience that sets alarm bells ringing for me. But as I say its only one review.

Why alarm bell, well Panny never usually suffer from dead pixels, they have used some Kuro tricks, Kuro like screen structure is more expensive to produce, deeper cells quicker phosphors, light rejecting front filters and as a consequence the rejection rate of poor screens will be less vigorous as that is more costly. Ok this is one review, but when corners are cut to meet a price point, things suffer QC is one of them. BE WARNED considering their record over the past 4 years.

I cant stress this enough, go look for yourself, and if YOU are satisfied and can buy with a feeling of piece of mind, then buy it.

I suggested caution a year ago and I'm suggesting the same again.

The vast majority of their customers are technically ignorant and all manufacturers know this and marketing is very powerful.

But if you are here and are reading tales from owners you should go into the purchase of a TV with your eyes open.

I still find it amusing that it takes someone on average 22 minutes to decide on buying a house, but it takes over 3 hours to buy a TV :lesson:
 
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interbear

Active Member
All fair points and I have every intention of going to "look & see" with my own eyes. My current Panasonic plasma is 4 years old, the "entry level" (at the time) TH-42PX70. It delivers great quality pictures (SD and HD) and I'm only replacing it due to some toddler-induced screen scratches :mad:

I'm looking to go from 42 to 46 inches and my experience with this set was pushing me towards a Panasonic GT20 or GT30. Would love the VT but too pricey. However, the volume of complaints on here is pretty concerning, despite the generally positive reviews elsewhere.

Hence why I will also look at alternatives including the new Samsung D7000 LED.

Well I suggest you go look for yourself, because I don't see much of a change and if its sport you watch....be warned.

I have made comments about these new sets re pricing vs quality. Costs have gone up, they have more features, vat has gone up, the cabinets are far more stylish YET THE PRICES ARE THE SAME AS LAST YEAR. What corners have been cut.

Its only one "proper" review but in the benchmark test section NO ONE has picked up on "dead pixel in the centre of the screen" and "slight greeness on right hand side of panel" In my experience that sets alarm bells ringing for me. But as I say its only one review.

Why alarm bell, well Panny never usually suffer from dead pixels, they have used some Kuro tricks, Kuro like screen structure is more expensive to produce, deeper cells quicker phosphors, light rejecting front filters and as a consequence the rejection rate of poor screens will be less vigorous as that is more costly. Ok this is one review, but when corners are cut to meet a price point, things suffer QC is one of them. BE WARNED considering their record over the past 4 years.

I cant stress this enough, go look for yourself, and if YOU are satisfied and can buy with a feeling of piece of mind, then buy it.

I suggested caution a year ago and I'm suggesting the same again.

The vast majority of their customers are technically ignorant and all manufacturers know this and marketing is very powerful.

But if you are here and are reading tales from owners you should go into the purchase of a TV with your eyes open.

I still find it amusing that it takes someone on average 22 minutes to decide on buying a house, but it takes over 3 hours to buy a TV :lesson:
 

Arctic Monkey

Novice Member
Right I've just called panasonic customer services which has to be said is shockingly bad. They have arranged a panasonic engineer to come over this Friday. When I spoke to them regarding the 50Hz issues they all had no idea. Do they not speak to each other internally or do they just pretend it doesnt exsist??

I will keep you informed with how I get on.
 

interbear

Active Member
Right I've just called panasonic customer services which has to be said is shockingly bad. They have arranged a panasonic engineer to come over this Friday. When I spoke to them regarding the 50Hz issues they all had no idea. Do they not speak to each other internally or do they just pretend it doesnt exsist??

I will keep you informed with how I get on.
My sceptical head tells me that they refuse to acknowledge it's existence to avoid any liability for refund claims!

Thx for your earlier post by the way - my majority usage is Sky HD programming, whether movies, sport or TV, so your experience is enlightening.
 

Paul Cooksley

Novice Member
Right I've just called panasonic customer services which has to be said is shockingly bad. They have arranged a panasonic engineer to come over this Friday. When I spoke to them regarding the 50Hz issues they all had no idea. Do they not speak to each other internally or do they just pretend it doesnt exsist??

I will keep you informed with how I get on.
To be honest, the scenario you describe whereby they seemingly and conveniently know "nothing at all" about this is extremely common. I've read it many, many times within these forums and indeed - it happened to me.

I complained to the Panasonic dealer I bought the set from within the first seven days about the dreadful floating blacks and then the 50hz problem. They told me that they had "no idea" what I was talking about as "no one has ever complained before about this issue".... Well, maybe not to them, no, but it is an issue - something when the dealer rang Panasonic they acknowledged and said "Don't worry, it gets better after 2,000 hours" 2,000 hours! So, based upon my viewing habits, it means I have to put up with this annoying problem for a least a year! Even then, my cynical mind doesn't believe this will happen either.

Again, the 50hz issue seems to be something that my "critical eyes" can only spot (!!!) as again "no one at Panasonic" seem to have heard of it!

Of course, to Panasonic, these "issues" as I was told they call them are, conveniently "within spec". I'd like to ask the overall boss of Pansonic if he himself (if it is a gentleman...could be lady? I don't know!!) would sit at home and put up with a tv that flickers in dark scenes and produces a 70's style 'Top of the Pops' video effect on people's faces as they move across the screen!!!!!

Perhaps I'm just seriously deluded and have a great imagination....:D

Anyhow good to hear that someone got their money back for these types of issue's - even though they had to wait and wait.
 
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semitone

Active Member
The only reason I didn't send back my 46G20 was because I got it as an insurance replacement for my previous 46PZ82 after it fell off the wall, bracket and all, and smashed on the floor ( while I was watching 2012, I kid you not :eek: and :rolleyes: !!).
Instead of a payout they called me up and offered a new 46G20, had to pay a £200 excess thought, so it wasn't entirely a free upgrade.
I remember reading all the reviews and comments I could find and thinking I got a result there !
I've posted my own experiences of the '50Hz' problems so I'll not repeat.
I'm reading the reviews on the new models as they come out with a keen interest... and a barrowload of salt !
No disrespect to the reviewers, but you either missed or glossed over issues that make for uncomfortable viewing of broadcast TV on this generation of Panny TVs !
It wasn't just mine and its not just being picky !
So buyer beware !
What ******** says....with bells on !
 

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