MartinCo
Established Member
okay long post with lots of details...
just read the top if you only want the summary...
Thought I would post my results so far using a laptop
as a HTPC. Others have asked about the viability
of such a setup against a desktop PC but I havent read of
anyone actually using one in any detail.
There also seems to be a bit of a debate currently about the performance
and easy of use of a well-configured HTPC compared to a good
pal/ntsc prog scan player (e.g. faroudja based philips or sil503/4 denon).
So far, I reckon a laptop could be a very good midway solution in this debate.
To me anyway, it appears to have the best of both worlds:-
a) the configurable video performance of the HTPC,
b) much lower noise levels than a desktop PC,
c) the size and convenience of normal standalone player.
If you imagine a mix of a portable dvd player with fully configurable vga,
then thats pretty close as an analogy I reckon.
Bar a remote control, it covers all areas required for DVD duties.
The remote situation can easily be fixed by an IR keyboard or a IR device
(has to be USB for me so either the streamzap or keyspan).
Combined with my Pronto and maybe girder if needed, this combo
should let me do anything.
The only current drawback I can see is not being able to use Dscaler,
since this is currently limited to being a PCI only product which is
impossible on a laptop.
Maybe a USB2 device (upto 400MBs) will come out in the next 12 months,
and eventually be supported. Alternatively a ProV/ TV4000 would do fine for £150.
{END}
if you want the complete details (results, laptop spec, room setup), then read on.
RESULTS
okay... I got impatient and just tried plugging laptop and pj together.
1024 x 768 looked okay but text wasnt quite clear.. movies were okay but not sharp.
Switching to 800 x 600 improved the text situation so I've stuck there for now.
Haven't quite got the lcd panel res matched using Powerstrip, but almost there..
with a bit of tinkering the next evening or two should be perfect.
800 x 600 looks very good already.
Put on a mixture of films over 3-4 days to try and all looked
uniformly excellent, no hint of any artifacts from the dvd and no screen door problems.
Colour is accurate and showed no problems (orangy skin, blooming reds etc).
NB I haven't even run a test/ calibration disc yet (like Avia) but will
do in the next few days.
I also didnt notice any jumping/ stuttering or problems with motion (at VGA 60hz)
between PAL or NTSC discs. If people have suggestions for "awkward" discs to try in this
respect, I'll see what I can do.
PowerDVD & Zoomplayer have been also installed for comparisons
and to stretch non-anamorphic dvds.
the 90" screen is very good. black levels are not
perfect yet but acceptable for the cost & time it took to do.
There are still big performance improvements that can be made here.
Its only the first 5-10 hours with the pj and still at a testing stage
but very watchable and no signs of any visual or audio problems...
(and I've really been looking for them after the Denon 2800's artifacts).
really had to pull myself away from some films because it was so tempting
to just watch and enjoy them.
have to say, even just running SVGA, the picture from the laptop is fabulous.
the dd/dts sound is very similar, if not identical to my pioneer or denon player.
However.. my biggest finding... and it really is a good one.
the laptop's full fan did NOT come on at all.
It only appears to come on when its internal screen is on -
and since its connected to the projector, this never happens.
There is some minor whisper type noise and the odd HD click but nothing like
the full fan noise (think handheld hoover levels).
certainly much less than what the panasonic does in low power mode.
This makes a huge difference - you really forget its there.
UPDATE -
I've checked in the power management options, and the laptop can have its
lid shut completely but still be powered up and running for
when playing DVDs.
This gives a very small footprint of about 14" across by 1" high.
Extremely handy when you consider:-
a) its portable (since its a laptop) so you can use it anywhere
b) the video/ audio are both excellent
c) its small in size like a conventional DVD player
d) not as big/ visible as a full desktop/ tower PC
e) its even got svideo out so you can take it to friends etc.
LAPTOP SPEC & REASONS
Due to my initial Denon 2800 dvd player still being away for
repairs and maybe a swapout, and no svideo cable at that point for the
old Pioneer 717, I settled on trying my laptop.
This is a new laptop bought in Feb/March and spec-ed
for just playing the odd dvd and maybe the PC extras on discs.
Not considered for projector duties at the time.
P4 1.8Ghz
512MB RAM
DVD/CDRW (DVD only also available).
ATI M6 Radeon 16mb
SPDIF out
VGA and TV-out
Firewire
Windows XP & WinDVD
@ £1299
its a pretty decent box and was available from
hi-spec, dixons/ pcworld, evesham, mesh and a number of others.
Its an OEM Asus design with similar models available for £800-900 upwards.
okay three key things about the spec...
1. its got a decent ATI graphics chip
I deal with a lot of laptops at work and know what some
of the chipsets are like... usually poor especially for games.
the embedded/ system memory type you usually get in a laptop
are okay for office stuff but nothing else. the ATI isnt
state of the art for games (newer M7 or Nvidia would be) but it will play them okay.
Anyway, the ATI chipset does give you hardware acceleration for DVDs.
Lower spec ATI gfx chips or other makes may be okay but you'd need to test it.
2. its got a proper SPDIF out (via mini Toslink).
this passes through DD and DTS perfectly with no problems.
this being built in might not be as important as I originally thought,
since there are now external usb sound/spdif devices available for £30-50.
even so, still a plus that it has this.
3. the DVD drive was NOT region free, RPC2 locked, no firmware available.
to fix this I used the "dvd regionfree" software from http://www.dvdidle.com
DVDs now play automatically from any regions with any softare player.
Its RCE compatible, macrovision free, and can even skip the FBI warning.
Since its using a "virtual" DVD drive, I expect its using big chunks of memory as cache
instead of the harddrive. probably helps with the fan/ noise levels due to this.
Anyway, for me, its a really great piece of software.
I'm surprised there hasnt been more mentions of it on the forums.
ROOM & BACKGROUND
Anyway, finally got my Panasonic AE100 projector last week.
Taken awhile but it did mean the living room is nearly fully decorated, furnished
and reasonably arranged ready for the projector.
Since its also our living room and due to the WAF, the screen and projector
are only in place when needed. Only takes 1-2 minutes to move the projector
and screen into place though so not a problem.
The room is fairly large... 13" x 22" to a bay window, where the screen is located.
There is a huge four seater sofa (8.5+ ft long) at the opposite end
approx 18-20 ft away - perfectly in line with the screen and
at a nice pleasureable viewing distance.
The projector is mounted on a table and can be between 9-13 ft from the screen,
giving a 7-8 ft 16:9 image with no keystone adjustments required.
The rest of the equipment is contained in an large Indian Jali TV cabinet,
recessed on the side wall. When closed, none of the
TV or equipment is visible but is still usable (via external IR transmitters).
There is a small side table to the right of this for the projector
when not in use, and the laptop when playing a DVD.
There is also another big sofa directly opposite the cabinet for non-projector tv/sat/vcr viewing.
The Mission FS2-AV speaker set is used for all audio, with the satellites
all installed high in the room corners, with centre and sub just below & behind the screen.
There will be a rear centre or two in the next few weeks for 6.1 ex/es duties.
The screen is only a blackout blind at the moment,
stretched taught across a 3m tension wire and then weighted down at the bottom.
Its matt white, but with no bowing/ creasing.
£22 for a 89" x 50" 16:9 screen isnt expensive anyway
and much can be improved on it yet at minimal cost.
This will be properly mounted on a black frame, and maybe painted
using the icestorm/pva method. When not in use, the screen is hidden behind
a decorative wall hanging on the opposite wall.
All in all, the room is fairly adaptable, with the projector visible when required,
and almost perfect seating distance for both standard TV or big screen viewing.
When nothing A/V is in use, its just a nice comfy well-furnished living room.
This was always my goal so not a bad starting point.
Conclusions so far
So far so good, I've found no audio/ video problems with using a laptop as source. the exact opposte really... the picture is superb, and very "filmic".
Have to seriously wonder if I need an expensive pal/ntsc prog scan dvd player now.
just read the top if you only want the summary...
Thought I would post my results so far using a laptop
as a HTPC. Others have asked about the viability
of such a setup against a desktop PC but I havent read of
anyone actually using one in any detail.
There also seems to be a bit of a debate currently about the performance
and easy of use of a well-configured HTPC compared to a good
pal/ntsc prog scan player (e.g. faroudja based philips or sil503/4 denon).
So far, I reckon a laptop could be a very good midway solution in this debate.
To me anyway, it appears to have the best of both worlds:-
a) the configurable video performance of the HTPC,
b) much lower noise levels than a desktop PC,
c) the size and convenience of normal standalone player.
If you imagine a mix of a portable dvd player with fully configurable vga,
then thats pretty close as an analogy I reckon.
Bar a remote control, it covers all areas required for DVD duties.
The remote situation can easily be fixed by an IR keyboard or a IR device
(has to be USB for me so either the streamzap or keyspan).
Combined with my Pronto and maybe girder if needed, this combo
should let me do anything.
The only current drawback I can see is not being able to use Dscaler,
since this is currently limited to being a PCI only product which is
impossible on a laptop.
Maybe a USB2 device (upto 400MBs) will come out in the next 12 months,
and eventually be supported. Alternatively a ProV/ TV4000 would do fine for £150.
{END}
if you want the complete details (results, laptop spec, room setup), then read on.
RESULTS
okay... I got impatient and just tried plugging laptop and pj together.
1024 x 768 looked okay but text wasnt quite clear.. movies were okay but not sharp.
Switching to 800 x 600 improved the text situation so I've stuck there for now.
Haven't quite got the lcd panel res matched using Powerstrip, but almost there..
with a bit of tinkering the next evening or two should be perfect.
800 x 600 looks very good already.
Put on a mixture of films over 3-4 days to try and all looked
uniformly excellent, no hint of any artifacts from the dvd and no screen door problems.
Colour is accurate and showed no problems (orangy skin, blooming reds etc).
NB I haven't even run a test/ calibration disc yet (like Avia) but will
do in the next few days.
I also didnt notice any jumping/ stuttering or problems with motion (at VGA 60hz)
between PAL or NTSC discs. If people have suggestions for "awkward" discs to try in this
respect, I'll see what I can do.
PowerDVD & Zoomplayer have been also installed for comparisons
and to stretch non-anamorphic dvds.
the 90" screen is very good. black levels are not
perfect yet but acceptable for the cost & time it took to do.
There are still big performance improvements that can be made here.
Its only the first 5-10 hours with the pj and still at a testing stage
but very watchable and no signs of any visual or audio problems...
(and I've really been looking for them after the Denon 2800's artifacts).
really had to pull myself away from some films because it was so tempting
to just watch and enjoy them.
have to say, even just running SVGA, the picture from the laptop is fabulous.
the dd/dts sound is very similar, if not identical to my pioneer or denon player.
However.. my biggest finding... and it really is a good one.
the laptop's full fan did NOT come on at all.
It only appears to come on when its internal screen is on -
and since its connected to the projector, this never happens.
There is some minor whisper type noise and the odd HD click but nothing like
the full fan noise (think handheld hoover levels).
certainly much less than what the panasonic does in low power mode.
This makes a huge difference - you really forget its there.
UPDATE -
I've checked in the power management options, and the laptop can have its
lid shut completely but still be powered up and running for
when playing DVDs.
This gives a very small footprint of about 14" across by 1" high.
Extremely handy when you consider:-
a) its portable (since its a laptop) so you can use it anywhere
b) the video/ audio are both excellent
c) its small in size like a conventional DVD player
d) not as big/ visible as a full desktop/ tower PC
e) its even got svideo out so you can take it to friends etc.
LAPTOP SPEC & REASONS
Due to my initial Denon 2800 dvd player still being away for
repairs and maybe a swapout, and no svideo cable at that point for the
old Pioneer 717, I settled on trying my laptop.
This is a new laptop bought in Feb/March and spec-ed
for just playing the odd dvd and maybe the PC extras on discs.
Not considered for projector duties at the time.
P4 1.8Ghz
512MB RAM
DVD/CDRW (DVD only also available).
ATI M6 Radeon 16mb
SPDIF out
VGA and TV-out
Firewire
Windows XP & WinDVD
@ £1299
its a pretty decent box and was available from
hi-spec, dixons/ pcworld, evesham, mesh and a number of others.
Its an OEM Asus design with similar models available for £800-900 upwards.
okay three key things about the spec...
1. its got a decent ATI graphics chip
I deal with a lot of laptops at work and know what some
of the chipsets are like... usually poor especially for games.
the embedded/ system memory type you usually get in a laptop
are okay for office stuff but nothing else. the ATI isnt
state of the art for games (newer M7 or Nvidia would be) but it will play them okay.
Anyway, the ATI chipset does give you hardware acceleration for DVDs.
Lower spec ATI gfx chips or other makes may be okay but you'd need to test it.
2. its got a proper SPDIF out (via mini Toslink).
this passes through DD and DTS perfectly with no problems.
this being built in might not be as important as I originally thought,
since there are now external usb sound/spdif devices available for £30-50.
even so, still a plus that it has this.
3. the DVD drive was NOT region free, RPC2 locked, no firmware available.
to fix this I used the "dvd regionfree" software from http://www.dvdidle.com
DVDs now play automatically from any regions with any softare player.
Its RCE compatible, macrovision free, and can even skip the FBI warning.
Since its using a "virtual" DVD drive, I expect its using big chunks of memory as cache
instead of the harddrive. probably helps with the fan/ noise levels due to this.
Anyway, for me, its a really great piece of software.
I'm surprised there hasnt been more mentions of it on the forums.
ROOM & BACKGROUND
Anyway, finally got my Panasonic AE100 projector last week.
Taken awhile but it did mean the living room is nearly fully decorated, furnished
and reasonably arranged ready for the projector.
Since its also our living room and due to the WAF, the screen and projector
are only in place when needed. Only takes 1-2 minutes to move the projector
and screen into place though so not a problem.
The room is fairly large... 13" x 22" to a bay window, where the screen is located.
There is a huge four seater sofa (8.5+ ft long) at the opposite end
approx 18-20 ft away - perfectly in line with the screen and
at a nice pleasureable viewing distance.
The projector is mounted on a table and can be between 9-13 ft from the screen,
giving a 7-8 ft 16:9 image with no keystone adjustments required.
The rest of the equipment is contained in an large Indian Jali TV cabinet,
recessed on the side wall. When closed, none of the
TV or equipment is visible but is still usable (via external IR transmitters).
There is a small side table to the right of this for the projector
when not in use, and the laptop when playing a DVD.
There is also another big sofa directly opposite the cabinet for non-projector tv/sat/vcr viewing.
The Mission FS2-AV speaker set is used for all audio, with the satellites
all installed high in the room corners, with centre and sub just below & behind the screen.
There will be a rear centre or two in the next few weeks for 6.1 ex/es duties.
The screen is only a blackout blind at the moment,
stretched taught across a 3m tension wire and then weighted down at the bottom.
Its matt white, but with no bowing/ creasing.
£22 for a 89" x 50" 16:9 screen isnt expensive anyway
and much can be improved on it yet at minimal cost.
This will be properly mounted on a black frame, and maybe painted
using the icestorm/pva method. When not in use, the screen is hidden behind
a decorative wall hanging on the opposite wall.
All in all, the room is fairly adaptable, with the projector visible when required,
and almost perfect seating distance for both standard TV or big screen viewing.
When nothing A/V is in use, its just a nice comfy well-furnished living room.
This was always my goal so not a bad starting point.
Conclusions so far
So far so good, I've found no audio/ video problems with using a laptop as source. the exact opposte really... the picture is superb, and very "filmic".
Have to seriously wonder if I need an expensive pal/ntsc prog scan dvd player now.