results of speaker cable experiments - shocked me!

Very interesting thread and interesting links thanks guys.
The link information is not consistent though with one person saying that bi amping may have some benefits and the other saying that biamping is a total waste of money.

They all seem to agree that biwiring is a waste of money though.

I have a selection of old speaker cables in the loft and have (maybe) been brainwashed into thinking more expensive = better. I will dig them all out and do a blind test with them. Then I will make up my mind once and for all.

I do hope I dont hear a difference then I can get some money back by selling them all and buying 79 strand :)
 
Why not find something in mono or switch FM to mono and use one wire on one speaker and a different one on another. Then you can switch between each speaker.
 
This next bit will drive someone up the wall I'm sure. Last night I put a spiked thick piece of wood under each floorstander (speakers spiked to wood, wood spiked to concrete floor). Despite the fact that I wanted it to work, and despite the fact that it had taken me 10 sweaty minutes to move the damn speakers and set them up again in exactly same position - the result was rubbish. Everything went woolly and blurred and seemed to be harsher. My wife noticed the same thing.
Put the speakers directly back on floor and pleasant normality was restored.

Off-topic for this thread, but putting your speakers on plinths *can* make a difference - but wood is not really an ideal material. My speakers sit on granite slabs, and this did seem to tighten up the sound. The aim is to support the speaker cabinet as rigidly as possible - by putting a spiked wood slab under the speaker, you have probably actually made the mounting less rigid, as you have the compliance of the wood in the plinth allowing the speaker to move.

My speakers each sit on a stack of 3 granite place mats from Tesco - total cost £18. I found it to make a worthwhile improvement, but YMMV.
 
Why not find something in mono...and use one wire on one speaker and a different one on another. Then you can switch between each speaker.


The sound from the two loudspeakers will differ even with identical loudspeaker cables because:

The loudspeakers must of necessity occupy different positions in the room and no real listening room is likely to be acoustically symmetrical.
No two loudspeakers will have identical sound characteristics even when placed in the same position in the room.


Alan
 
Okay you put the two speakers more or less in front of you. Listen to one then the other, decide which you like best then switch them over. Then listen again. It might eliminate which speaker is the best.
 
Okay you put the two speakers more or less in front of you. Listen to one then the other, decide which you like best then switch them over. Then listen again. It might eliminate which speaker is the best.


If the speaker cable tests are to be credible, we must eliminate sources of error as far as is possible. So, when we switch between two nominally similar loudspeaker cables, the difference between their measured outputs must be small enough to be inaudible. That is the reference against which any changes due to other cables may be assessed. The test is one of whether the listener can or cannot detect a change of cable in a statistically significant manner.

The only way I can see to achieve the test objective is to electrically switch the speaker cable connections using suitable relays. Such testing does take a lot of time and effort to set up but I do not see any credible short cut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test

http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing.htm



Alan
 
Meanwhile, back at enamelled copper. I've already posted that my upgrade path was from Nordost Flatline gold with phono plugs , to 8 strand solid silver/litz braided/teflon, to 2 strand thicker guage solid siler/teflon, to enamelled copper. (the last 3 cables having NO end plugs - just bare wire) I'm convinced each step was an improvement overall.

I've just spent the last week or so listening to the Grover Huffman custom made cables. No terminations - he recommends bare wire. It's a 3 strand solid silver, with shielding, as far as I can tell. He holds a patent on the construction, but it seems to be 1 flat wire, with 2 round wires, in a loose teflon sleeve. Then some over-jacket stuff. I bought it to try, based on rave feedback in various forums.

I've just taken it out, and put back my £2 of enamelled copper. There were subtle differences, but after a minute or so they faded into insignificance. Essentially the cables were slightly different but equally enjoyable. Both had the detail, the sound stage, the foot tappingness and lack of fatigue. I'd struggle to tell them apart in a blind test.

To me, it proves that the enamelled copper is a good speaker cable - as good as the Huffman, and better than others I've tried.
(To the guys who think that all cables sound the same, irrespective of material, insulation or construction, it proves that all cables are the same).

Either way, I'm going to send back the Huffmans to California for a refund, and stick the £250 into a savings fund for a new preamp. (I must deserve sommething after all this experimentation!)

By the way - those enamelled wires have been in and out of my system loads of times, stuffed beind cupboards when not in use, and retwisted a few times - and ther's no signs that the insulation has been even slightly damaged - it's tough stuff, as you'll find when you try and strip it off at the ends.
 
Steve, I very pleased to tell you that my new roll of magnet wire arrived today, and I'm looking forwards to finding out for myself how well it works. I bought it from Brokotts, who I was impressed with.

Nick
 
Great post, I tried the enamelled wire and your right it's amazing! I used soft annealed, electrolytically refined high purity copper, and yes I concur it took some time to remove the enamel!. I also have 16 awg 99.99% pure solid core silver I run through oversize PTFE tubes and terminated with ETI kryo plugs, I found the copper to sound fuller in the mid bass, perhaps slightly sweeter in mids as well. It certainly didn't lack the air that the silver has (air being the subsonic or beyond 20khz noise that is captured when recording live music) allowing them to sound very musical.
 

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Great post, I tried the enamelled wire and your right it's amazing! I used soft annealed, electrolytically refined high purity copper, and yes I concur it took some time to remove the enamel!. I also have 16 awg 99.99% pure solid core silver I run through oversize PTFE tubes and terminated with ETI kryo plugs, I found the copper to sound fuller in the mid bass, perhaps slightly sweeter in mids as well. It certainly didn't lack the air that the silver has (air being the subsonic or beyond 20khz noise that is captured when recording live music) allowing them to sound very musical.
Slightly sweeter - you have been reading too many RA adverts :rolleyes: Love to know how you measure 'sweetness'

air being the subsonic or beyond 20khz noise - oh you mean a 'sound' that travels slower than the speed of sound (subsonic) but is also somehow beyond the upper range of human hearing. :facepalm: Wow you have some amazing physics happening in your house - which universe do you live in?

Admit it you work in marketing for a cable company
 
Slightly sweeter - you have been reading too many RA adverts :rolleyes: Love to know how you measure 'sweetness'

air being the subsonic or beyond 20khz noise - oh you mean a 'sound' that travels slower than the speed of sound (subsonic) but is also somehow beyond the upper range of human hearing. :facepalm: Wow you have some amazing physics happening in your house - which universe do you live in?

Admit it you work in marketing for a cable company
;) One which has only just started receiving posts from 2008 perhaps?
 
Thanks for your valuable input and highlighting the incorrect word for higher frequencies beyond human hearing.

I actually manufacture cables and own the company. No benifits to me agreeing to the post claiming magnet wire actually sounds great. I come across this post when looking for others who shared similar experiences. Highly suggest checking it out for your self, it should add significant weight to your posts claiming otherwise.
 
@SP31 When someone can actually show the physics or measurements that makes OFC copper wire sound different to other OFC copper wire of the same cross-sectional area in the same application then maybe I will, but it hasn't happened yet in this universe.
 
Holy thread revival Batman

I gave up on expensive speaker cable when I tested my 'expensive per meter cable' against some twin and earth and found no difference.

I have stuck with Van Damme Blue ofc after that.
 
I actually manufacture cables and own the company.
I'd like to draw your attention to Rule 7 in our Rules and Terms in view of that answer.
 
Thanks for all your valuable and informative responses so far.

Hopefully others who have actually tried using magnet wire may also share their experiences.
 
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I once read a 1970s Wireless World magazine article where they did a double blind test with a rusty nail to connect speaker cable to the amp. They couldn't tell the difference. Perhaps it was the high quality of 1970s nails or poor quality of 1970s wire.
 
For around 20 years I have used the yellow 110v power cable that we have to use on building sites for our power tools. I had half a reel leftover and gave it a go. I can't confess you ever using expensive cables, but I can say this standard power cable works fine. Get a reel of it, it comes in many different lengths. Save yourself a fortune. I saw some cable on a website today at £625.00 "PER METRE". fooking madness even if you was rich.
 

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