Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by Batch, Oct 1, 2005.
Is 25 or 16ms good for gaming?
Depends what type of lcd it is http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/budget_lcd_roundup_0405/page2.asp
This TV: http://www.panasonic.co.uk/lcd-tv/tx17lx2/index.htm - will it be alright for gaming with it's 16ms response?
Yes it should be fine as panasonic use IPS lcd technology which have very good response times i.e 16ms IPS is as fast as 10ms TN-film
as your on the subject.
metz will be bringing out there own lcd tv in the next month or so .
the top of the range stuff will have a response time of 7 m/s !
oh, there making there own panels too !
Thanks, how about this Samsung http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/455_259179.html
with a 25ms response?
You will see ghosting/smearing on that model. Toshiba/Panasonic/Hitachi use IPS lcds panels.
K, Thanks. Panasonic it is then!
If possible demo the model your after along with others. What will the primary use be gaming?
I take it you have the read the article in post #2
the recent crown lcd that woolies were flogging has an 8ms response time.
ive got one - absolutely no smear whatsoever.
surely 7ms is no big deal ?
A "true" 16ms (eg 16ms for every transition) display is capable of displaying a full 60fps. (62.5fps to be exact) Lower than that = higher framerates, but if you're a console gamer, you won't be going higher than 60 anyway.
However, most manufacturers often quote "peak" response times, rather than the slowest, so even if a display is 12ms, 8ms etc, it may still have some transitions that are above 16ms. (generally in dark areas of a similar tone/colour)
If you've got a 12ms or lower display though, it should certainly be able to handle games. (note: any fixed pixel display such as LCDs will "smear" slightly with interlaced sources - this disappears entirely with progressive scan)
Often these ultra-low response displays (7ms or less) actually fare worse than most displays rated as 12ms, 8ms etc, as they're only focusing on getting the peak down low, rather than all transitions.
How would this TV http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=TOMA03YLB be, with a 23ms response rate?, it is a toshiba.
Go for the newer 56 its a lot better than last years and its cheaper too!
You can get a 20WL56 for £360 delivered and its 3" bigger than last years 17WL46! http://audiovisual.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/sbs/100311823/14217045.html
Thanks. What's the refresh time on that the newer 20" LCD ^ from Toshiba? Will it be alright for gaming?
The smearing and especially the ghosting that you see on an LCD panel is only slightly related to the response time.
That response time figure is just an easy way to slam other panels. Every time the newest panel has a 1ms lower response time so all the others are crap.
In reality, the ghosting does not appear on the panel but in your brain.
A CRT screen shows each image only very briefly, which your brain interprets as part of a moving scene. The short image appears at the correct spot, and in-between images are not visible because the CRT is dark at those times. When this is not happening quicky enough you see flicker.
On an LCD, the panel stores the image and shows it continuously until the next image is sent to it. There is no flicker.
But the brain sees a continuous image fixed at one point, followed by a new image where the scene has moved to a different point.
It is unable to process this as a moving scene, instead you see a double image (ghosting).
To solve this, you need a strobing backlight, that flashes only briefly for each frame and shows the scene in the correct location, then turns black again.
Philips had announced a new TV to appear by now, that included this feature. However, it has been postponed.
Until then you can try to find the LCD with the lowest response time, but it will not really solve the problem because response time is not that the real problem is.
I have read this elsewhere, in PC Pro magazine i think. The article related to some manufacturers research into why very fast LCD panels still appear to smear movement. It's all about the way our brains are wired up apparently. As you say the Philips scanning backlight may be the way forward here.
Thanks. What's the refresh time on that the newer 20" LCD from Toshiba http://www.home-entertainment.toshi...s/lcdplasma-widescreenlcd-20wl56?opendocument ? Will it be good for gaming?
Yes it will be fine. Heres a review of the bigger 27WL56 http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/televisions/0,39030219,39191459,00.htm
Thanks very much MADMAND! You've been such a great help!
flickering lcds are progress? - flickering is one of the less pleasant things about crts
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