1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Resolution higher than 1024 improves image....

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Gary Lightfoot, Dec 9, 2002.

  1. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,140
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Surrey. UK.
    Ratings:
    +1,953
  2. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,037
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,111
    (all images are simulated)

    give me a break!
     
  3. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,140
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Surrey. UK.
    Ratings:
    +1,953
    I know the images are simulated - the original poster says so.

    So are you saying that interpolation can't make an image smoother?

    It would explain why there are so many pjs with resolutions higher than NTSC - 854 x 480 (16:9).

    If that isn't the reason, why do you think?

    Gary.
     
  4. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,037
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,111
    I take issue with his illustration.

    As far as I'm concerned the only possible advantage with a higher res than input format panel is that you can go to a large screen size with less visible panel structure up until the limits of the image it will start to appear overly soft.

    There are all sorts of issues with different types of scaling. Not one of them will produce the results as illustrated: total waste of time and I cannot believe the muppets lining up to pat him on the back ( no offence). One reason I steer clear of the AVS forums: a few good guys but a lot of muppets who seem to thrive on persuading each other black is white.
     
  5. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,140
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Surrey. UK.
    Ratings:
    +1,953
    Why didn't you say that in the first place?

    I hate it when people shoot the messenger.
     
  6. richard plumb

    richard plumb
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    14,263
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Windsor
    Ratings:
    +1,013
    I would have thought the main reason there are so many higher resolution projectors out there is because they are needed for the boardroom?

    This recent batch of HT/HC projectors have panels much more evenly matched to real needs, either DVD (480 lines) or HDTV (540 lines)
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,976
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,779
    Joe Kane commented on how many pixels he thought are required for accurate playback of images in a Widescreen Review article. I'll see if I can find it and type out what he said...It's going to cause a fight!

    Gordon
     
  8. Dodgey

    Dodgey
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    To me, it is as simple as this - CRTs don't have pixels, so you don't see any. LCD and DLP do, so you do (and they are not good). The more you have, the smaller they are and the less you will see them.

    Bye
     
  9. richard plumb

    richard plumb
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    14,263
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Windsor
    Ratings:
    +1,013
    dodgey, I'd agree while we are still mostly in the analogue age, as the CRT can display it accurately and LCD/DLP are only approximating it, so more pixels allows a more accurate representation of the analog original.

    But as things inevitably go digital, with DVI etc (the source is already digital), things may come full circle, with the fixed panels being the accurate represenation, and CRTs approximating.
     
  10. Dodgey

    Dodgey
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Richar, agreed. the CRT "approximating" is nice though :)
     
  11. cine king

    cine king
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I think Mr D should rethink his muppet quote regards Mark Hunters post on AVS.
    I believe he is responsible for Milori.com and Dilard calibration s/ware for DILA projectors.

    I believe his post was tongue in cheek anyway.

    It is clear from the uptake to his initial post though,that not many of the others got it!

    It is also mentioned in the thread that upscaling above the native resolution of the format is ONLY useful on a gigantic screen where the pixels are less apparent.
    :D
     
  12. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,037
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,111
    I think I'll speak my mind thank you very much.
     
  13. cine king

    cine king
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Theres a difference between speaking your mind and being rude to someone and calling them a muppet.

    Your muppet statement might be applicable to some in the AVS forum-but someone that specialises in software for DILA projectors?

    I think this is rather unfair to someone who is not present to defend himself-maybe you should explain to Mark Hunter-who has always offered quality help to other members at AVS why he is a muppet?

    I feel this was a cheap shot.

    :confused:
     
  14. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,037
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,111
    I don't recall calling mark a muppet and I'm well aware who he is prior to this thread but I predict I'm going to be using the term "muppet" a lot more in the near future.

    Hope you can hear me down there on your bended knee.
     
  15. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,140
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Surrey. UK.
    Ratings:
    +1,953
    It appears the Radeon range of graphics cards are very good at interpolating lines when upscaling from the source data (it's something they were designed to do and why they are the card of choice), so it would seem Marks original post has some merit - depending on the scaler of course.

    Any comments on that Mr D?

    Gary.
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,976
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,779
  17. cine king

    cine king
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I think the implication in mr d`s post was clear-trashing Marks thread and lesser mortals than his good self who though less informed are still doing what they enjoy-and good luck to them-maybe one day they will be as "informed" as mr d and also be able to call people muppets-only time will tell.

    Dont know what the bended knee comment was all about though,maybe mr d is an Al Jolson fan -hes surely been around long enough accumulating all that wealth of knowledge to remember him!;)

    Has mr d a useful comment to make about the resolution question?
     
  18. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,037
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,111
    I don't imply anything.
    Marks illustration was eroneous whether it was meant as a joke or not. I suspect it was. Hence my reference to the muppets who followed his post.

    Scaling is scaling , some good some less good. I've mentioned some of the issues with regard to whole pixel and subpixel mapping a few months ago in another thread. The idea is to hide the lack of real resolution in an image for a given size. What you cannot do is recreate actual subpixel resolution that is somehow hidden in the image... regardless of what you do : it simply isn't there. Which is contrary to what marks post is "simulating"

    There are tricks and techniques that can leave you with an image that looks sharper than it really is at a given resize but its all hit and miss and never works for every situation and gives as many unwanted artifacts as benefits ( if any).

    I have posted in some depth on gordon's new thread. Whilst this isn't a specific area of my speciality scaling and pulling images around through differing algorithms is something I do every day.
     
  19. cine king

    cine king
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I notice that some of the posts in here have disappeared?

    But anyway,nothing wrong with speaking your mind mr d ,as long as you dont break forum rules by insulting comments like muppet!
     
  20. cine king

    cine king
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    So mr d ,are you saying that scalers etc.have no benefit even on a larger screen?

    Do you advocate no scaling and projection at native resolution utilising full panel close to say-dvd res-no higher than 1024 x 576 widescreen?

    Any image on a hd2 projector is scaled upwards of this producing some artifacts whatever the quality of the Sage/Sil/Faroudja.

    So your anti-scaling above natural res?

    So no point in buying a projector above the limit of the source than?

    Makes the NEC HT1000 more attractive by the minute(except for the more obvious screen door structure-but less artifacts?):confused:
     

Share This Page

Loading...