Reproductive Rights

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
It's funny, I often find people who are anti abortion, banging on about the sanctity of life, often seem to only value lives up until the moment of birth. 🤔

Yes, there was some quip from a British TV presenter, or comedian (may have been Ricky Gervais), commenting on the God Fearing Christians from the deep South of the States - how they were so pro-life, right up until the point that that same cute little baby grows up and comes out of the closet! Then it’s all, ‘burn him, burn him with fire!’

Double standards spring to mind! But that‘s religion for you - and this is probably the wrong thread to go off on that particular tangent! :D :rolleyes:
 

Plumsandpearls

Distinguished Member
Yes, there was some quip from a British TV presenter, or comedian (may have been Ricky Gervais), commenting on the God Fearing Christians from the deep South of the States - how they were so pro-life, right up until the point that that same cute little baby grows up and comes out of the closet! Then it’s all, ‘burn him, burn him with fire!’

Double standards spring to mind! But that‘s religion for you - and this is probably the wrong thread to go off on that particular tangent! :D :rolleyes:
You don't need to go to America for those views, northern ireland will do the job
 
Have seen and experienced first hand the care and attention needed to care for a severely disabled child. One of my sister in laws had two kids spaced apart by about two years, the eldest a girl was severely disabled and all the Mother's care and attrntion was focused on her. It had a devastating effect on the younger child her son. The Mother was so physically and mentally worn out she had no time for him. Short tempered and dismissive with him, he was still wetting the bed at 12. The girl died at the age of 16 and by then it was too difficult for the Son to accept his Mother's new found attention. When he was old enough he left home and joined the Army. A young man desperate to find a family?
The illness only started showing itself when Maureen was coming up to the age of four. Like most of us, in principle I believe in the right to life. When my daughter was pregnant if any of the scans had shown serious foetal abnormalities I would havre supported her right to terminate.
 
D

Deleted member 686356

Guest
Theyre also only concerned with the foetus' life. Screw the mother (not my opinion).
I was going to make a similar point. They are very quick to shout about how much compassion they have for the foetus, but they don't show any compassion for the mother.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
Thanks for sharing. We were almost in a similar position, but a miscarriage made the decision for us.
I was REALLY shocked when I looked it up a while back just how common they can be and the majority of the percentage is during the first trimester, it is quite terrifying and that is coming from a man. If I was a woman with how I am now id be so stressed as I keep jumping to worst case scenarios for everything.

I see nothing wrong with having an opinion on the thread subject as long as you don't start forcing others to see your way or try to influence them in any way, that is the whole point of an opinion because lets face it nobody can agree on everything. Someone wants to start having a go at you for either view should just be given the middle finger.
 

Plumsandpearls

Distinguished Member
I was REALLY shocked when I looked it up a while back just how common they can be and the majority of the percentage is during the first trimester, it is quite terrifying and that is coming from a man. If I was a woman with how I am now id be so stressed as I keep jumping to worst case scenarios for everything.
I worry every time anyone I know is pregnant that they're going to lose the baby. And not a fleeting panic either.
I could not be a parent - I dont think I'd let my (fictional) wife out of my sight and probably wouldn't be able to sleep the whole time shevwas pregnant. Then there's the small matter of worrying about them growing up. Terrifying. Cot death, kidnapping, road accident...
Being a parent is just not for me.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
I worry every time anyone I know is pregnant that they're going to lose the baby. And not a fleeting panic either.
I could not be a parent - I dont think I'd let my (fictional) wife out of my sight and probably wouldn't be able to sleep the whole time shevwas pregnant. Then there's the small matter of worrying about them growing up. Terrifying. Cot death, kidnapping, road accident...
Being a parent is just not for me.
Honestly as scary as it is I really wish I could meet someone and start a family, to this day ive never held a child before, always hoped my first would be my own.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
We have 2 children and had 2 "might of beens". One we lost at less than 12 weeks, traumatic, but seemingly quite common, while the 2nd one was at 20 weeks. I won't go into the details, but it was extremely upsetting for us both, as my wife had to naturally give birth to our deceased son.

We do count ourselves lucky in that we have 2 healthy children - now 18 and 20. I feel more for those who are denied the chance to have children, and this can include woman who may have had an abortion earlier in their lives, but have then never found another person to have a family with. I know from a good friend that this is much harder, knowing that the spark of life was snuffed out because the circumstances were wrong, but then living with a lifetime of guilt and regret.

I must stress this is not the experience of some woman, so I remain pro-choice, but I think the reality needs to be spelt out and understood. I am also adopted, so I thank my birth mother that she decided to go through with the pregnancy rather than termination!
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Then there's the small matter of worrying about them growing up. Terrifying. Cot death, kidnapping, road accident...

...and this does happen. The house we live in, we bought from friends. Their daughter was murdered while backpacking in Australia. We still look after a couple of rose bushes they planted in the garden named ‘the backpacker’s rose’ in her memory.



Death from cancer was far too good for the perpetrator. :mad:

[sorry, off topic]
 

HeavySaurus

Member
People should only have kids when they want them. It's what's best for everyone, the parents and the resulting child. Forced births only result in unhappiness.

No one wants to have an abortion. Some people would be good to remember that. They only ever are performed when someone finds themselves in a situation they don't want to be in - whether that's an unwanted pregnancy or a wanted one with complications. Nobody wants to be there.

And whilst it might happen occasionally, I can't see abortions used as contraception very commonly, not enough to be a wider problem anyway. They're not pleasant at all. I haven't had a termination, but I have had two miscarriages, which are technically spontaneous abortions. The first one involved the most painful hour of my entire life after medical management (abortion pills), the second I had surgical management (which is how abortions are performed too) and it's just not a pleasant experience! Screws up your body for weeks too. Anyone willingly putting themselves through that instead of prevention must have a few screws loose.
 

Miss Mandy

Moderator
I fully support people having the right to terminate a pregnancy, but I think it’s also important that the right help and health services are available to everyone that needs to make this decision. I think it’s important that it’s available for those situations where a pregnancy is a risk to a mother, a child might be born disabled and suffer after birth, the adults involved genuinely aren’t equipped to be parents, etc. I worry that a small number of women rely on it too easily though which is not good for long term health, particularly mental health in my opinion. Abortion shouldn’t be a decision taken lightly.

I used to work with someone who’s had more than one abortion and they didn’t really see it as a big deal. As someone who suffered a miscarriage and an ectopic pregnancy in my 20s that viewpoint didn’t sit well with me. Even more so now having recently turned 40 and still being on my own as I haven’t found the right guy for me. Over the last few years I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that marriage and children were not in the worlds plans for me. To see others so easily write them off is disappointing.
 

Rebecca Riot

Well-known Member
It's funny, I often find people who are anti abortion, banging on about the sanctity of life, often seem to only value lives up until the moment of birth. 🤔
A lot of these pro-life protesters in the US regularly threaten to kill doctors who perform abortions for whatever reason and are supporters of the death penalty for criminals so they're not really pro-life at all, are they?
 

Jammy Smears

Well-known Member
People should only have kids when they want them. It's what's best for everyone, the parents and the resulting child. Forced births only result in unhappiness.

No one wants to have an abortion. Some people would be good to remember that. They only ever are performed when someone finds themselves in a situation they don't want to be in - whether that's an unwanted pregnancy or a wanted one with complications. Nobody wants to be there.

And whilst it might happen occasionally, I can't see abortions used as contraception very commonly, not enough to be a wider problem anyway. They're not pleasant at all. I haven't had a termination, but I have had two miscarriages, which are technically spontaneous abortions. The first one involved the most painful hour of my entire life after medical management (abortion pills), the second I had surgical management (which is how abortions are performed too) and it's just not a pleasant experience! Screws up your body for weeks too. Anyone willingly putting themselves through that instead of prevention must have a few screws loose.
I think women that have had more than a couple of terminations are generally damaged in some way, abusive partner, drug use, depression, mental health troubles or whatever. They should be pitied and helped rather than castigated for having numerous terminations. Level headed women with good lives do not use abortions as contraception.

Sorry to hear about your miscarriages Heavy saurus.

As to my own thoughts on the subject, I do kind of hate the 'abortion is ok if the woman is a victim of rape or there is something wrong with the baby' camp. As far as I'm concerned, not wanting to be pregnant is reason enough to terminate.

Being pregnant is tough, raising a child is tough and no woman should be guilted into going ahead because of other's views on abortion.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
As far as I'm concerned, not wanting to be pregnant is reason enough to terminate.
In this situation for me if this decision was made by my partner alone and gone through with then it would be the end of the relationship. If someone flat out does not want to get pregnant there are things that can be done to make sure you never get pregnant rather than waiting til later when you already are.

Marriage and Children should be the first things covered at the start of any relationship imo before getting too far down the line then compromising and most likely ending due to built up resentment.
 

HeavySaurus

Member
In this situation for me if this decision was made by my partner alone and gone through with then it would be the end of the relationship. If someone flat out does not want to get pregnant there are things that can be done to make sure you never get pregnant rather than waiting til later when you already are.

Marriage and Children should be the first things covered at the start of any relationship imo before getting too far down the line then compromising and most likely ending due to built up resentment.
The only contraception that's 100% effective is abstinence. Accidents happen all the time. I agree with your second paragraph though, it should be discussed as soon as you start having sex with someone and are pretty confident it isn't just a one night thing.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
The only contraception that's 100% effective is abstinence. Accidents happen all the time. I agree with your second paragraph though, it should be discussed as soon as you start having sex with someone and are pretty confident it isn't just a one night thing.
Options are available to both sexes to prevent accidental pregnancies, not sure if reversible though.
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
Options are available to both sexes to prevent accidental pregnancies, not sure if reversible though.
Sadly, people make mistakes and / or don't think things through.

And generally speaking, we really don't want to be forcing the sorts of people who make these mistakes, multiple times in many cases, into becoming reluctant parents.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
Sadly, people make mistakes and / or don't think things through.

And generally speaking, we really don't want to be forcing the sorts of people who make these mistakes, multiple times in many cases, into becoming reluctant parents.
Oh I understand, it is certainly not a decision to take lightly but for those that know they absolutely do not want kids to the point of going through the termination procedure several times it would be the less stressing and dangerous option for their bodies and ultimately themselves.

Even if you do not want kids finding you are pregnant and then terminating cannot be easy on you despite you not wanting them let alone having it done multiple times.

It is a dangerous and stressing topic whatever someones opinion is with no easy roads.
 

Fairly priceless zero

Active Member
Abstinence is unworkable, because of human nature.

Our human instinct is hardwired towards procreation. To think everyone on the planet could restrain their sexual feelings until the 'correct time' is nieve.....
 

Aye Up

Active Member
I 100% welcome the replies in this thread, it genuinely demonstrates that reproductive rights are an issue of conscience in this country. granted folk have their reservations, which is to be expected. I'm so glad we tend to air on the side of women when it comes to so sensitive matters.

I feel that access to pregnancy services should come with some requirements, in that an informed decision can be made.....access to counselling at the very least.
 

Tom Davies

Editorial Contributor
'Pro-life' is such a BS term for being against abortion.
As if people who are in favour of making abortion available to those who choose or need it are "anti life."
 

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