Reproductive Rights

Aye Up

Active Member
There has been a little bit of increase in the news recently around access to abortion services in Northern Ireland;


I'm thankful in the UK by and large, matters relating to abortion are an issue of conscience and not a political one. It largely means that discussion takes place calmly and to some degree rationally. The Abortion Act 1967 is mostly still in force now with the addition of N.I. in 2019, it was a landmark moment for women's rights IMHO, setting aside aspects of male dominated institutions and putting the decision in the hands of individual women.

Im curious where people stand nowadays?

I'm been having discussion with people I work and socialise with, there are still a significant number of individuals who believe in the sanctity of life beginning at the moment of conception. Thus any termination is wrong and cruel.

Personally as a man, I'm fervantly pro choice, I trust, appreciate and support women to make the best decision for themselves. I believe in equality, but in some respects certain specific rights like access to reproductive services are a must, I'm no feminist. I know of several women including my own mother who have undergone a procedure and it is very arduous and challenging mentally and physically as I understand it.

Should the law be tightened, liberalised or maintain the status quo?
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Thus any termination is wrong and cruel.

Any argument that begins with this point is wrong before it's even began. Over the years I've listened to so many people (not you) who trot this out as gospel, and then try to reason from it.

It's no wonder the debate rages on with so many entrenched in such a way.
 

Inked

Distinguished Member
Massively pro choice, we had our first child in 2012 and got pregnant again in late 2015, we found out during one of the scans that our daughter likely had a chromosomal abnormality and a hole in the heart, which was confirmed later to be Edwards syndrome (Trisomy 18).

Our daughter would have been born with severe physical and mental disability and a 5-10% chance of living beyond a year.

We had never considered my wife ever having to have an abortion so it was a massive shock to have to make the decision.

I’m not religious (raised catholic but agnostic as I’ve got older) but my Wife and her family are, so for her there was a further hurdle for her to come to terms with it, and she did go and speak to her priest to find some comfort in making the decision to not continue with the pregnancy.

Thankfully she had the support of the amazing NHS staff, her family, and her priest (which was obviously hugely important to her) to be able to deal with the awful decision to have (what the doctors called) a medical miscarriage and went into hospital and gave birth to our daughter in the January.

I was broken for ages and didn’t want to try for another child, sure that there would be further complications as we were also getting older, my wife on the other hand was sure she wanted to try again.

Thankfully, there is only a 1% chance of having a second child with the condition and our son was born a year later in January 2017.

No-one should be able to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Massively pro choice, we had our first child in 2012 and got pregnant again in late 2015, we found out during one of the scans that our daughter likely had a chromosomal abnormality and a hole in the heart, which was confirmed later to be Edwards syndrome (Trisomy 18).

Our daughter would have been born with severe physical and mental disability and a 5-10% chance of living beyond a year.

We had never considered my wife ever having to have an abortion so it was a massive shock to have to make the decision.

I’m not religious (raised catholic but agnostic as I’ve got older) but my Wife and her family are, so for her there was a further hurdle for her to come to terms with it, and she did go and speak to her priest to find some comfort in making the decision to not continue with the pregnancy.

Thankfully she had the support of the amazing NHS staff, her family, and her priest (which was obviously hugely important to her) to be able to deal with the awful decision to have (what the doctors called) a medical miscarriage and went into hospital and gave birth to our daughter in the January.

I was broken for ages and didn’t want to try for another child, sure that there would be further complications as we were also getting older, my wife on the other hand was sure she wanted to try again.

Thankfully, there is only a 1% chance of having a second child with the condition and our son was born a year later in January 2017.

No-one should be able to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body

Thanks for sharing that and sorry to hear what happened. It is a perfect example of where narrowing down an issue such as yours into a binary right or wrong scenario, is problematic and simply not the only way such a matter should be approached.

I have rowed with people who would have said what you did was wrong and abused you both for your decision. Disgusting in the extreme.
 

Inked

Distinguished Member
Thanks for sharing that and sorry to hear what happened. It is a perfect example of where narrowing down an issue such as yours into a binary right or wrong scenario, is problematic and simply not the only way such a matter should be approached.

I have rowed with people who would have said what you did was wrong and abused you both for your decision. Disgusting in the extreme.
They were the worst moments of our life, first sat in the hospital waiting area having just had scans knowing with every fibre what was coming while my wife was trying to reassure me that it was all fine.
Then waiting for the test results (my wife went with her mother as I couldn’t face it) and breaking down in tears when she told me.
Holding my tiny daughter after she was born, just the size of my hand, and then having to explain to my other daughter that the sister she thought she was getting would never be coming home.

We are lucky enough to have family support, I can’t imagine being a woman having to make the decision, not only possibly without a support network, but also with people actively fighting and abusing them at the same time.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
Massively pro choice, we had our first child in 2012 and got pregnant again in late 2015, we found out during one of the scans that our daughter likely had a chromosomal abnormality and a hole in the heart, which was confirmed later to be Edwards syndrome (Trisomy 18).

Our daughter would have been born with severe physical and mental disability and a 5-10% chance of living beyond a year.

We had never considered my wife ever having to have an abortion so it was a massive shock to have to make the decision.

I’m not religious (raised catholic but agnostic as I’ve got older) but my Wife and her family are, so for her there was a further hurdle for her to come to terms with it, and she did go and speak to her priest to find some comfort in making the decision to not continue with the pregnancy.

Thankfully she had the support of the amazing NHS staff, her family, and her priest (which was obviously hugely important to her) to be able to deal with the awful decision to have (what the doctors called) a medical miscarriage and went into hospital and gave birth to our daughter in the January.

I was broken for ages and didn’t want to try for another child, sure that there would be further complications as we were also getting older, my wife on the other hand was sure she wanted to try again.

Thankfully, there is only a 1% chance of having a second child with the condition and our son was born a year later in January 2017.

No-one should be able to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body
That was difficult to read, very sorry you and your mrs had to experience this. Whilst the news was devastating and something that nobody should have to be given I couldn't even imagine how much worse it would be for both of you and even more destroying if you had seen/held them for as long as the child would have lived knowing what was going to be innevitable.

I am happy to hear you both managed to work through it ok and hope the rest of the family are well.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
I have rowed with people who would have said what you did was wrong and abused you both for your decision. Disgusting in the extreme.
You just cannot help but wonder if they were in this exact same situation if they would do what they are criticizing so much, all well and good saying this until it happens to you and you are faced with such a horrifying choice a parent has to make.
 
D

Deleted member 686356

Guest
You just cannot help but wonder if they were in this exact same situation if they would do what they are criticizing so much, all well and good saying this until it happens to you and you are faced with such a horrifying choice a parent has to make.
The old adage about not judging someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes springs to mind.

I am pro-choice. It's none of my business what a woman chooses to do with her body, but this is usually when pro-lifers weigh in with the "what about the child?" rhetoric.

Pro-lifers are entitled to their views of course and I respect their viewpoint. I have no time however for the relentless pro-lifers who get all high and mighty and won't budge on their stance under any circumstances.

FWIW I'm not keen on the terms pro-choice and pro-life but I am using them here for the sake of argument.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Massively pro choice, we had our first child in 2012 and got pregnant again in late 2015, we found out during one of the scans that our daughter likely had a chromosomal abnormality and a hole in the heart, which was confirmed later to be Edwards syndrome (Trisomy 18).

Our daughter would have been born with severe physical and mental disability and a 5-10% chance of living beyond a year.

We had never considered my wife ever having to have an abortion so it was a massive shock to have to make the decision.

I’m not religious (raised catholic but agnostic as I’ve got older) but my Wife and her family are, so for her there was a further hurdle for her to come to terms with it, and she did go and speak to her priest to find some comfort in making the decision to not continue with the pregnancy.

Thankfully she had the support of the amazing NHS staff, her family, and her priest (which was obviously hugely important to her) to be able to deal with the awful decision to have (what the doctors called) a medical miscarriage and went into hospital and gave birth to our daughter in the January.

I was broken for ages and didn’t want to try for another child, sure that there would be further complications as we were also getting older, my wife on the other hand was sure she wanted to try again.

Thankfully, there is only a 1% chance of having a second child with the condition and our son was born a year later in January 2017.

No-one should be able to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body
Thanks for sharing. We were almost in a similar position, but a miscarriage made the decision for us.

I am pro choice, but being male, I do not have the right to make any decision or offer more than my point of view even if I was the partner to any lady considering a termination. I am not in favour of "lifestyle" terminations, but in most cases there's mitigating circumstances even then. As you say, binary choices are not appropriate and every situation must be individually assessed and suitable counselling and advice given.

Many Christians believe that even in cases where a child may be born with severe and unsurvivable abnormalities, the pregnancy should run its natural course. They trot out pictures of happy, smiling Downs kids, but fail to mention the children born without functioning bowels, layers of skin missing so the slightest touch is torture, heart and lung problems where the child will suffocate shortly after birth... where a disability is survivable and the child can live a reasonably normal, happy, if limited life, my thoughts would be to continue with the pregnancy, but where it is clear that the chances of survival beyond a few weeks are almost zero, sometimes the decision needs to be made in the child and mothers best interests.
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Very sad to read what you, your wife and your family have had to go through @Inked .

We didn’t find out that our youngest was severely disabled until he was around 3 months old - there were flags, but we hadn’t picked up on them. I truly am not sure what we would have done had we known during the pregnancy.

We still don’t know what his life expectancy is, as we stopped having tests to find exactly what he has, as each one got progressively more invasive, and was going to involve general anaesthetic to sedate him, which has its own risks.

I‘m massively pro choice, but we’re at our keyboards and it’s easy to assume that everyone is like us.

My wife can attest that the system gets abused by some in certain sections of our society, as simply being regarded as contraception!

Over the years, she has had numerous patients who are serial abortionists (not sure if that’s the right word) - these women basically don’t take care of, or protect themselves, and simply have another abortion as and when they fall pregnant - not even making use of the morning after pill! They just expect the NHS to sort them out, then carry on and do it all again - multiple times!

I do have a problem with these people, not in their choice, or right to terminate a pregnancy, but in their attitude and expectation; the people carrying out these procedures have feelings too!
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
Pro-choice. Significantly so. And the whole system should be made more accessible to help these women / couples through what must be a horrible experience.
 

Plumsandpearls

Distinguished Member
The BBC did a drama a few weeks ago a out abortion In NI, three families, it was just incredibly sad, but worth watching.
I've said that I shouldn't really have an opinion on this as it doesn't concern me (as a gay man, I don't think I have any right to tell women they should or shouldn't have an abortion).
That said I'm very much pro choice.
One of the stories in the BBC show was about fatal foetal abnormalities. The family involved were told their baby wouldn't live when it was born, but it couldn't be terminated, so it had to be carried full term.
You wouldn't let a dog go through that, so why a person ? Some of the friends abd relatives were telling the couple involved that the doctors coukd be wrong, and to pray. Sickening really
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Thanks for sharing. We were almost in a similar position, but a miscarriage made the decision for us.

Sorry to hear that @noiseboy72 , as my wife has explained to me on more than one occasion, miscarriages are nature’s way of dealing with non-viable pregnancies. (Apologies, as I’ve read that sentence back, it sounds cold, but not sure how to make it sound better - it’s just the way medics describe such things, it’s taken me years to get used to the non-flowery way they speak about, what to me, are quite painful subjects).

Many people think it’s the most natural thing in the world to become pregnant and have a baby, but the truth is it’s an awfully complex procedure, and a huge percentage of pregnancies end in miscarriage - my wife did give me the stats once, but I forget the exact figures, I just remember being shocked at the poor odds of actually having an uneventful pregnancy with a healthy child at the end of it!
 

Inked

Distinguished Member
Sorry to hear that @noiseboy72

Many people think it’s the most natural thing in the world to become pregnant and have a baby, but the truth is it’s an awfully complex procedure, and a huge percentage of pregnancies end in miscarriage - my wife did give me the stats once, but I forget the exact figures, I just remember being shocked at the poor odds of actually having an uneventful pregnancy with a healthy child at the end of it!
You don’t realise just how many friends have also gone through the pain of losing a child in pregnancy until it happens to you. It’s heartbreaking.

Thanks for all the kind words guys
 
D

Deleted member 686356

Guest
Very sad to read what you, your wife and your family have had to go through @Inked .

We didn’t find out that our youngest was severely disabled until he was around 3 months old - there were flags, but we hadn’t picked up on them. I truly am not sure what we would have done had we known during the pregnancy.

We still don’t know what his life expectancy is, as we stopped having tests to find exactly what he has, as each one got progressively more invasive, and was going to involve general anaesthetic to sedate him, which has its own risks.

I‘m massively pro choice, but we’re at our keyboards and it’s easy to assume that everyone is like us.

My wife can attest that the system gets abused by some in certain sections of our society, as simply being regarded as contraception!

Over the years, she has had numerous patients who are serial abortionists (not sure if that’s the right word) - these women basically don’t take care of, or protect themselves, and simply have another abortion as and when they fall pregnant - not even making use of the morning after pill! They just expect the NHS to sort them out, then carry on and do it all again - multiple times!

I do have a problem with these people, not in their choice, or right to terminate a pregnancy, but in their attitude and expectation; the people carrying out these procedures have feelings too!
I actually agree with this. I am still pro-choice but I think people should be willing to take some personal responsibility. Abortion should not be seen as an alternative to contraception.
 

Plumsandpearls

Distinguished Member
I actually agree with this. I am still pro-choice but I think people should be willing to take some personal responsibility. Abortion should not be seen as an alternative to contraception.
I'd like to think/hope that people don't use it as an alternative to contraception
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
You don’t realise just how many friends have also gone through the pain of losing a child in pregnancy until it happens to you. It’s heartbreaking.

Thanks for all the kind words guys
Incredible numbers. Out of myself and my 3 closest friends, 3 of us have suffered multiple miscarriages.

One of our (3 miscarriages) died at 20 weeks and although the baby was obviously already dead, we had to go through basically the process of a birth over 30 hours or so at hospital. Absolutely heartbreaking.

We had two before my first child. Then another in between my second and third I think.
 

Notorious PIG

Well-known Member
My wife can attest that the system gets abused by some in certain sections of our society, as simply being regarded as contraception!

Over the years, she has had numerous patients who are serial abortionists (not sure if that’s the right word) - these women basically don’t take care of, or protect themselves, and simply have another abortion as and when they fall pregnant - not even making use of the morning after pill! They just expect the NHS to sort them out, then carry on and do it all again - multiple times!

I do have a problem with these people, not in their choice, or right to terminate a pregnancy, but in their attitude and expectation; the people carrying out these procedures have feelings too!
I totally agree with you, I have a problem with those particular people also. I know it’s not my business what people choose to do with their bodies or pregnancies but I simply don’t understand them.

The UK has amongst the best (possibly the best?) free access to contraception in the entire world. It is a huge privilege available to all residents. Why don’t they want to use it? So many different types to choose from. It’s a lot less hassle than going to get multiple abortions.

I know (or knew, as I choose not to associate with her anymore) a woman who’s had at least four. No other excuse apart from her own carelessness.

I also knew a woman from Thailand who had six, I don’t know much about access to contraception in Asian countries though.
 
D

Deleted member 686356

Guest
I'd like to think/hope that people don't use it as an alternative to contraception
I'd like to think so too and I always assumed it was a rare occurrence, despite it being brought up a lot in these discussions. However, I remember seeing some stats on multiple abortions a while back and being shocked as to how common they were.
 

Inked

Distinguished Member
Incredible numbers. Out of myself and my 3 closest friends, 3 of us have suffered multiple miscarriages.

One of our (3 miscarriages) died at 20 weeks and although the baby was obviously already dead, we had to go through basically the process of a birth over 30 hours or so at hospital. Absolutely heartbreaking.

We had two before my first child. Then another in between my second and third I think.
I’m so sorry, I can’t imagine the pain of going through it multiple times. My wife was induced to give birth to our daughter after they had intervened to end the pregnancy, we were lucky that it was a very quick birth.
 

shodan

Distinguished Member
This thread is absolutely heart breaking! 😭

My opinion? Pro Choice.
But not just Pro Choice, I am in the "What's it got to do with you?" camp for when people get on their soapboxes about other people taking this decision.

A while back a woman at work asked me what my stance on abortion is.
I sensed a trap and so said "Seeing as I'm not interested in your opinion, I'm going to presume you aren't actually interested in mine. So that said, I'm not talking about it".
 
Last edited:

Boo Radley75

Distinguished Member
It's funny, I often find people who are anti abortion, banging on about the sanctity of life, often seem to only value lives up until the moment of birth. 🤔
 

The latest video from AVForums

Prey + Bullet Train reviews, Heat 4K + Event Horizon 4K and all the latest movies and TV news
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Movies Podcast: 8th August 2022
  • By Casimir Harlow
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 8th August 2022
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Warner Bros Discovery set to combine Discovery+ and HBO Max
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
What's new on Sky, NOW and Paramount+ UK for September 2022
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Pro-Ject Audio launches X2 B turntable
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom