Replace Pioneer SC-LX83 With Denon AVR-X6400H?

ahaydock

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As the title says really, considering replacing my Pioneer SC-LX83 with a Denon AVR-X6400H?

Thoughts?

Upgrade or possible downgrade in audio performance? We listen to a good mix of just music (stereo) and films (5.1).
 
Difficult to say for sure, but could be a downgrade in music, and either a side step or upgrade for movies.

Do you fancy an Arcam AVR550 for £1499 from RS? That would be an upgrade for both music and movies.
 
It will go very well with your speakers and have no trouble driving them. Audyssey XT32 should also make a difference as it is a better EQ system than that on the Pioneer. Very good receiver for film, great steering of audio. I had a X6200 and I wasn't impressed with the stereo music performance but since then Denon has upgraded the processor from AL24 to AL32 so there may be an improvement there. I know own the AVC X6500 but have not tested it for stereo music as my front R300s are being driven by a stereo amp in HT by-pass mode. I feel that is an upgrade from the 6200 for film audio certainly.
 
As the title says really, considering replacing my Pioneer SC-LX83 with a Denon AVR-X6400H?

Thoughts?

Upgrade or possible downgrade in audio performance? We listen to a good mix of just music (stereo) and films (5.1).

LX83 is a brilliant receiver, I had one for 10years and I miss it. I think the denon is definitely not an upgrade, more like a down step. I think you need to be looking at the Arcam's now, the pioneer has superb stereo performance and the arcam will improve that.

If you like all the convenience functions of the pioneer like its 2 way remote etc, then maybe the acram is not for you as the pioneer has all the bells and whistles, the arcam is a stripped out version of it.

Are you only upgrading because you need 4k pass through? If not, keep it and save your money. If you need 4k and further the sonic ability, you need to look at the arcam AVR20 like what I have now.
 
LX83 is a brilliant receiver, I had one for 10years and I miss it. I think the denon is definitely not an upgrade, more like a down step. I think you need to be looking at the Arcam's now, the pioneer has superb stereo performance and the arcam will improve that.

If you like all the convenience functions of the pioneer like its 2 way remote etc, then maybe the acram is not for you as the pioneer has all the bells and whistles, the arcam is a stripped out version of it.

Are you only upgrading because you need 4k pass through? If not, keep it and save your money. If you need 4k and further the sonic ability, you need to look at the arcam AVR20 like what I have now.

Thanks for the reply and each point in turn:

Never use half the features on the Pionner tbh (don't even use the remote).

Yes I am looking at 4K passthrough and ideally adding ATMOS, as want to connect my Apple TV 4K and UHD BD Player so both have ATMOS and 4K HDR Video and at the moment my SCLX83 won't support either because of its age?
 
Thanks for the reply and each point in turn:

Never use half the features on the Pionner tbh (don't even use the remote).

Yes I am looking at 4K passthrough and ideally adding ATMOS, as want to connect my Apple TV 4K and UHD BD Player so both have ATMOS and 4K HDR Video and at the moment my SCLX83 won't support either because of its age?

Ok cool I was in the same boat as you. If you want something sonically better check out the arcam's, otherwise all other products will work great but I wouldn't class it as an upgrade, just my opinion.

You'll get great money for it if you sell it, could offset the cost of your upgrade. If that doesn't bother you I would keep it.
 
Ok cool I was in the same boat as you. If you want something sonically better check out the arcam's, otherwise all other products will work great but I wouldn't class it as an upgrade, just my opinion.

You'll get great money for it if you sell it, could offset the cost of your upgrade. If that doesn't bother you I would keep it.

Given the current climate I would probably sell it tbh as only have around £1500 for an AVR and hopefully some 2nd hand Kef R50 Atmos speakers.

Not sure what the Arcams go for so will take a look.
 
Given the current climate I would probably sell it tbh as only have around £1500 for an AVR and hopefully some 2nd hand Kef R50 Atmos speakers.

Not sure what the Arcams go for so will take a look.

If you are only running 5.1.2 then you need to look at the older arcam 550 as a min powerwise, if you like streaming your music then you really need to look at the new HDA range, again powerwise the AVR20, if not AVR10.

To put things into context here, the lx83 I.paid 2k 10years ago, I paid 2.5k on a deal for my AVR20.
 
If you are only running 5.1.2 then you need to look at the older arcam 550 as a min powerwise, if you like streaming your music then you really need to look at the new HDA range, again powerwise the AVR20, if not AVR10.

To put things into context here, the lx83 I.paid 2k 10years ago, I paid 2.5k on a deal for my AVR20.

Those Arcams looks awesome but out of budget currently. Music is either via Spotify or what's on my MacBook via AirPlay, however as much as I love my music its very rare I get to set and listen properly if you know what I mean. Its on as I am working etc...
 
Richer Sounds has the Arcam 550 for £1499.

Peter Tyson has the Denon AVC X6500 also for that price. There is also the possibility of a P/X if you have the Pioneer's original box.

There's no doubting Arcam's audio abilities as long as you've got the patients to iron out the bugs.
 
Richer Sounds has the Arcam 550 for £1499.

Peter Tyson has the Denon AVC X6500 also for that price. There is also the possibility of a P/X if you have the Pioneer's original box.

There's no doubting Arcam's audio abilities as long as you've got the patients to iron out the bugs.

Hmm now that could be tempting, and yes have the box and all original accessories/packaging etc.

I currently Bi-Amp my fronts and wanted to do this still as IMO it makes a worthwhile difference. I seem to remember this wasn't possible on the Arcams. I would be looking for 5.2.1 where the fronts a re bi-amped.
 
You can bi-amp fronts and centre from the 6500 although I'm pretty skeptical about any real gains by doing so as you are passive bi-amping and that power has to come from a single PSU, so really robbing Peter to pay Paul. I use a stereo amp with HT by-pass to drive my fronts, not for power's sake but for a better stereo music performance and still use the same front speakers.

I've had the 6500 for a fortnight now, bought from Peter Tyson with a P/X. I do actually prefer it to the old X6200 which had the lesser AL24 processing to the 6500's AL32. Perhaps more of a sideways move rather than an upgrade but the warranty was up on the 6200 and upgradiatus and the lock down got to me. Comes with a five year warranty from PT, although you can use Richer Sounds six year warranty on the Arcam for a £150 refundable payment should you not use the warranty.
 
You can bi-amp fronts and centre from the 6500 although I'm pretty skeptical about any real gains by doing so as you are passive bi-amping and that power has to come from a single PSU, so really robbing Peter to pay Paul. I use a stereo amp with HT by-pass to drive my fronts, not for power's sake but for a better stereo music performance and still use the same front speakers.

Thank you, appreciate the help and I know what you mean but all the cabling is in place for bi-amping so why not.

The 6400 can bi-amp all in a 5.1 or as 9.1 with fronts only so I would probably do that but won't have the 2 middle speakers connected so just bi-amped fronts, centre, rears, front Atmos and sub. Guessing that won't be a problem? Or by not plugging 2 surround speakers in will it mess up the sound?

But then maybe an un bi-amped Arcam AVR550 would sound better over a bi-amped Denon 6400 in stereo (well maybe 2.1 if you can as do like my bass).
 
You can bi-amp with the Arcam AVR550, from the manual:

Bi-amping the Front Left & Front Right speakers Bi-amping is the use of two amplifier channels per speaker. Bi-amping can provide better sound quality than conventional single wiring. If you do not have Surround Back speakers (i.e. you have a 5.1 surround system, not a 7.1 system) then you can use the spare Surround Back speaker outputs to bi-amplify the front left and right speakers, if your speakers support bi-amping. The spare channels can alternatively be used to power stereo speakers in another room (Zone 2).
 
You can bi-amp with the Arcam AVR550, from the manual:

Bi-amping the Front Left & Front Right speakers Bi-amping is the use of two amplifier channels per speaker. Bi-amping can provide better sound quality than conventional single wiring. If you do not have Surround Back speakers (i.e. you have a 5.1 surround system, not a 7.1 system) then you can use the spare Surround Back speaker outputs to bi-amplify the front left and right speakers, if your speakers support bi-amping. The spare channels can alternatively be used to power stereo speakers in another room (Zone 2).

Thanks - same as how my Pioneer is now then.

Do you know if the AVR550 can support 5.1 with bi-amped fronts AND Atmos fronts as well (if I get the R50's)
 
Thanks - same as how my Pioneer is now then.

Do you know if the AVR550 can support 5.1 with bi-amped fronts AND Atmos fronts as well (if I get the R50's)
You'd need a 2 channel power amp for that. It only has 7 onboard power amps.
 
You'd need a 2 channel power amp for that. It only has 7 onboard power amps.

Guess it depends how a non bi-amped Arcam performs with Stereo vs the bi-amped Denon I guess.

Can get the Denon 6400 for about £500 less than the Arcam so also wondering whether the Arcam is worth the extra...
 
Guess it depends how a non bi-amped Arcam performs with Stereo vs the bi-amped Denon I guess.

Can get the Denon 6400 for about £500 less than the Arcam so also wondering whether the Arcam is worth the extra...

My front mains have been bi amped all their lives..... only 2 weeks ago I've wired it normally, I cannot hear any notable differences. I wouldnt bother off the same power supply.
 
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Cheers. Guess its whether the Arcam is worth the extra £500 though?
 
Cheers. Guess its whether the Arcam is worth the extra £500 though?
I would say yes. Before the Arcam AVR550 I had a Marantz SR7011 and a Denon 6300 and 4400. The Arcam is better and worth the extra money. However, where can you get a Denon 6400 for £1000? The Arcam is brand new in box with a 5 year warranty.
 
I would say yes. Before the Arcam AVR550 I had a Marantz SR7011 and a Denon 6300 and 4400. The Arcam is better and worth the extra money. However, where can you get a Denon 6400 for £1000? The Arcam is brand new in box with a 5 year warranty.

Cheers, and a colleague is looking to off load his so wouldn't have a warranty etc sadly although may be able to haggle as that's the asking price and not tried yet.
 
Cheers, and a colleague is looking to off load his so wouldn't have a warranty etc sadly although may be able to haggle as that's the asking price and not tried yet.
Right. You can't really compare used electronics with no warranty to new electronics with warranty. The last two used amps that I bought, arrived in perfect working order, and developed faults within months of me owning them. The equipment that I bought new on the other hand, and looked after, has been with me for years, it all gets bumped round to different rooms when the main room gets an upgrade.
 
Right. You can't really compare used electronics with no warranty to new electronics with warranty. The last two used amps that I bought, arrived in perfect working order, and developed faults within months of me owning them. The equipment that I bought new on the other hand, and looked after, has been with me for years, it all gets bumped round to different rooms when the main room gets an upgrade.

I hear ya, but the extra money may be a deal breaker that's all.

Do the Arcams support AirPlay as I use that a lot? Cant see anything having a quick look...
 
I hear ya, but the extra money may be a deal breaker that's all.

Do the Arcams support AirPlay as I use that a lot? Cant see anything having a quick look...
I doubt it. I'm not an apple user. The Arcam is not a bells and whistles amp, it's very stripped back but has tons of power, sounds fantastic and has Dirac.

Lots of owners, me included, use external streamers and DACs for music. You can get pretty inexpensive ones if budget is tight. Selling your Pioneer might help?
 
I doubt it. I'm not an apple user. The Arcam is not a bells and whistles amp, it's very stripped back but has tons of power, sounds fantastic and has Dirac.

Lots of owners, me included, use external streamers and DACs for music. You can get pretty inexpensive ones if budget is tight. Selling your Pioneer might help?

Cheers and I will take a look. Appreciate all the help
 

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