Repeal the climate change act petition.

Discussion in 'Politics & The Economy' started by karkus30, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. karkus30

    karkus30
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  2. Squiffy

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    I've signed.
     
  3. sidicks

    sidicks
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  4. Wild Weasel

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    Signed.

    Let's hope the government of the day think the next time before they let a Friends of the Earth eco-marxist write another piece of legislation for them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  5. MikeTV

    MikeTV
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    I haven't signed.
     
  6. sidicks

    sidicks
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    Are you struggling with how to spell your name?
    :D
     
  7. Jamezinho

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    Done.
     
  8. rockmonkey1973

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    Signed... nah not really.

    I have to say i admire her spunk and drive to mobilise the population under the banner of sceptic. I will keep my eye on it to see how many people rally round to the cause. Seriously i do think her determination to go out on a limb and try to push forward an agenda in this day and age is commendable. Reading her blog and a few other random articles she has posted was quite interesting and i found myself agreeing with a few of her points not on climate change like but on the nature of our democratic system.

    That said another quick look at the closing date leaves me to conclude she is finding the battle to get past dogma and media propoganda an uphill struggle. If i am correct (although i wouldnt even like to begin to hazard a guess at how many times i arent) it appears the petition has already been out in the wild for nearly three months and there are only just over 1000 signatures.

    Still she may now drum up a bit more support what with the link on here. Me i dont have any kids so either or is no major biggy to me. Having a joke doesnt always come off well in print so edited this...

    I did sign the petition to have Richard the IIIs remains brought back to York Minster though. Funny that the old boy was found under a car park of all places and a council owned one at that... how undignified! That is one petition i can see actually having an influence on the government simply because it really doesnt matter one way or the other. Quite surprising how many people had voted.

    The site is actually quite depressing because i cant imagine more than one per cent of those petitions having any affect on government policy (and no per cent when it comes to real issues that matter) which highlights the point the lady was making and which i totally agree with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  9. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Even though its going to cost you to subsidise Tim Yeo and co ? People are getting rich from this subterfuge while others are being plunged into fuel poverty. The least that is needed is a proper review and like the EU referendum, nothing happens until politicians are forced to look at it instead of simply accepting it as a vote winner ( or loser ). She is right when she says we have lost the ability for critical thinking. I remember a book I used to read to my siblings at bedtime called Chicken Licken in which an animal believed the sky was falling in because it got hit on the head by an acorn. Until somebody figures out if its an acorn or the actual sky we should heed its message.
     
  10. rockmonkey1973

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    Ah man i am actually quite a risky gambler but on this occasion i choose to hedge my bets and i dont even know anything about the science. One could also argue you and others like you are acting like the ostrich in the sand. Either or as i said i dont have kids so either way it isnt really major for me but even though i dont have children i tend to consume as little electric as possible and recycle where possible. I also look around at say the 99p shop... prime example. The amount of unneeded junk that has just been produced just because is insane. Got to be having a detremental impact on the planet if not say global warming.

    One could also argue a case that fuel poverty comes from rising prices and if you take a look at centricas and EDFs profits in the last year well you know i find it hard to believe that the reason prices are rising at such a high rate is because we are building wind farms.

    Like i say i agree with a lot of the things she was saying when she starts talking about democracy but i turned off when the rest of it was all about money. I actually do think though that if we consider that the UK was under 30 metres of ice what 10 or 20 thousand years ago give or take probably goes to show we are in a constant state of flux but i do think we are harming the environment irreparably one way or the other and for that reason alone i support any measures that go towards preventing further damage. I also firmly believe that oil is past peak despite all the media hype which i tend to pay no attention to at all and instead prefer to look at honest studies done by reasonable sane people.

    edit: that said i am all for a referendum bear in mind even that woman said 56 per cent believe in environmental damage of one form or another and thus i would guess would support policies that attempt to arrest it but regardless i would happily vote. Its not the way democracy works though is it you and i both know that!

    I also dont buy the whole oh well they arent doing it so why should we argument. It is just childish. I mean so what if they arent. Maybe if we could lead as example others will follow who knows. I mean stranger things have happened. At least if the end comes we could say we tried and i would rather die trying than die having never tried at all. Dramatic i know but the sentiment is what counts :O)

    It obviously doesnt help the good old US of A isnt fully along for the ride. However some of those folk are pretty strange and we shouldnt be looking to them when we consider our own policy. After all one of the Senators who sat/ possibly headed a sub committee on the environment thinks we are alright because God told Noah that the world will not flood again. Worrying... I mean loony tunes and certainly not something most sane people would ever take seriously and yet these are the lunatics running the asylum. In fact its so mad i had to get a source to back it up... and the source i found is well... indisputable for many on here!!!! lmao!

    John Shimkus: 'Global warming won't destroy planet because God promised Noah' | Mail Online
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  11. EarthRod

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    Not signed.

    This is a form of power play between a government department and an outside campaign by an agency. Even if Fay Kelly-Tuncay gets her way and the Act is dismantled, another will be created, it is the nature of the beast.

    Also, it is what a proportion of the population want and the government have complied, hence the Climate Change Act.

    Politics, politics, politics. Nothing to do with climate change (whatever that means)!

    .
     
  12. Philly112

    Philly112
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    I would agree with that. But when most of the members on this forum appear to believe that the moon landings were faked, you have to ask yourself if many signers from here will have used their same cognitive skills when pouring over the climate change evidence!

    Phil
     
  13. sidicks

    sidicks
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    ???????!
     
  14. Cliff

    Cliff
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    Maybe your confusing this forum with GC next door? ;)
     
  15. EarthRod

    EarthRod
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    Not being an elected representative of the members of the forum I personally feel I cannot speak on their behalf.

    I will leave that up to those who are very capable of passing arbitrary judgement.

    :D
     
  16. karkus30

    karkus30
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    You have to make that decision. You might change your mind as energy prices start to bite.
     
  17. Cliff

    Cliff
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    Political or not, on balance worth signing.

    First off, let me say that I agree CO2 emissions should be minimized.
    I have signed the petition because I do not agree with the way this government or Gordon Brown made stupid decisions trying to meet European targets.

    Specifically: -

    Carbon swaps. Crazy – who thought that one up?

    Green electricity subsidies- such as the (lifetime) feed in tariff which gets paid for by normal electricity and gas users. The poor, particularly, could not afford pv panels or were in flats/ council houses where solar panels are not an option.

    Windmills. These are springing up only because of the carbon and other subsidies. Secondly, wind farms have to be backed up by conventional carbon fueled power plants. These are notoriously wasteful when demand is low (ironically when the wind is blowing!) and just chuck out emissions.

    I might agree that the climate is changing but the above gives the general public the false idea that something is being done and we don’t need investment in conventional/nuclear power anymore. We will get what we wish for. This is a serious mistake.
     
  18. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    That poll was hacked :laugh:
     
  19. fluxo

    fluxo
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    Flippin' government. They're doing nothing about the climate or the weather. A cloud passed nearby today and these useless ministers were nowhere to be seen.
     
  20. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    I refuse to sign as i am largely in agreement that CO2 emissions need to be reduced
     
  21. Wild Weasel

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    The global warming scam does seem to draw its support largely from the left.


    Enron

    yes, that Enron.
     
  22. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Stop breathing then.
     
  23. sidicks

    sidicks
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    :rotfl:
     
  24. Philly112

    Philly112
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    Apologies, yes I am of course.
    The OP would get far more signatures there!

    I have to say that I am a beneficiary here as I have solar panels and make around £1200 a year at everyone else's expense. And of course we installed them because it was a financial no brainer, not because they are any good at generating electricity (they are poor). I would actually be inclined to sign the petition, but I'd need to spend a bit more time researching the CCA and it's effect on the economy.
    For every energy loser there are winners (eg me, the people employed in renewable industries etc).
    But my head tells me that these things are best left to market forces rather than government subsidies.

    Phil
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  25. overkill

    overkill
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    And people who actually know what they are talking about. Few Scientists argue that it's not happening, and those that do are arguing cause, not effect.

    If you want to believe in conspiracy theories purely to keep your precious tax money - go for it!

    In the real World though, Ice caps are melting, Glaciers disappearing, water reserves drying up, and desertification accelerating due to an abnormally increasing global temp.

    Not signing something that derides doing something, no matter how small, rather then nothing.
     
  26. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Without (fully) knowing what is happening, why it is happening we can't generate a solution to the problem.

    I think the argument here is that the current solution does nothing for climate change, does a lot to pay subsidies to land owners, solar panel/windmill infrastructure companies and middle class people taking money out of the pocket of the poorest.

    Make the tariff optional and split the subsidy from that pot, if the market wants wind/solar power it will get it, but forcing fuel poverty on people seems a little sick. Anyone can feed in power, but at the same rate as anyone else, the subsidy is the problem.
     
  27. karkus30

    karkus30
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    If Man made climate change is not happening and by sticking to this belief we destroy our own economy and plunge the population into a state of wealth reversal and fuel poverty how would you feel ?

    Is it worth risking that when we really don't know and as time is going on its looking less and less likely that the release of CO2 is the culprit. I'm also amazed that many people don't actually know that Co2 is an abundant natural atmospheric gas necessary for plant growth and what they think they are supporting is the reduction of toxins. Even now, when they show power stations they focus the cameras on the cooling towers because they know that people think all that stuff billowing into the atmosphere is some noxious poison and not nice clean water vapour.

    I don't think its anymore a choice of what we would like, but what we can actually afford. If we were cleaning up the air and stopping asthma or lung cancer it would certainly be a path worth following but it isn't. Its unproven science over an extreme time period and to date it has been constantly revised because the model and science have proven incorrect. We can certainly say there is climate change, but we can't even predict that with any degree of accuracy never mind it being man made.

    I think the choice to do something maybe a choice we all live to regret big time. Even Germany is now building coal powered fire stations. The UK produces less than 2% of the worlds emissions and the current bill will have the UK alone trying to reduce its emissions by 90% all to try and make Britain into the alternative energy capital of the world. Its nothing to do with the emissions and everything to do with some men making money out of windmills and alternative funny money schemes such as Tim Yeo.
     
  28. fluxo

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    A more immediate problem is that we won't have enough power generation capacity at all. Moreover, we are set to become very reliant on gas imports, and therefore subject to the whims of those exporting to us. That is a real danger to the country's economy and individual households (think much higher electricity bills).

    Nuclear power seems to be the only sensible option, but the government wants the private sector to build the power stations. Unfortunately, they can't find a company that is interested unless the taxpayer takes on all the risk and provides for guaranteed profit margins. So there's a stand-off.

    The most sensible option, I think, would be for the government to build the power stations itself. In my opinion it would be a better use of public money than HS2. There is little point in having a new fast train link if there is not enough power to move the trains.
     
  29. karkus30

    karkus30
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    LOL good point. I don't agree with HS2 either, but its going to be less than optimal powered by a petrol generator and batteries.

    Its time to get fracking while we still have time. Gas imports were part of the Labour policy and we were never expected to have any independence. As for being at the whim, that's not the case, there are many exporters of gas and all want our business and will fight for it.

    Nuclear power isn't a sensible option which is why no other countries are interested. The Japanese disaster showed that they are always a risk that cannot be avoided. Its a slim risk, but the costs are so high if there is an accident that they wipe out the advantage in the first place ( if there is one ) . Mind you, since everyone else is dropping out of nuclear power it will mean cheaper uranium fuel. Be interesting to see how that works when the mining commodities bubble bursts.
     
  30. pragmatic

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    Germany dropped out of nuclear because of their heavy green lobby, which forces them to ironically open up a huge amount of coal plants. Of course this is on the back of years of subsidies for solar and wind power, which don't appear to be adding much to the energy mix.

    France seems to be doing all right from nuclear as is the USA (which I think are expanding their nuclear base). Nuclear gives us a great deal of energy security, we could stock pile uranium to last us hundreds of years, we can reprocess fuel to reuse it.
    Although our energy generation is lacking nuclear in the quantities we need it we are world leaders in reprocessing the stuff, Japan sent it to us i.e. other side of the world.

    The Japanese disaster was a tsunami, the nuclear received a lot more attention and yet not a single person has died, and I don't believe we expect any to. Nuclear is the apparent boogeyman of energy generation with solar/wind seen as the shining hope, but if you've seen the play Wicked Wicked (musical) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) I think the reality is more like that, exaggerated and distorted and the bad guy is nothing of the sort, and the good guy isn't really that good either (still good though).
     

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