Question Repair RX-V3067 or New AVR?

[Wildpredator]

After some advice please or at least bounce some thoughts out off my head.

To give background my current setup for last 9+ years:

Yamaha RX-V3067 - 7.2 channel:
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) - 140W (8ohms, 0.06% THD)
Dynamic Power per Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms) - 175/220/295/415W

5 x Kef Q Series Speakers: Q700 Towers x 2, Q600c, Q300 bookshelf

I didn't have the room for side surrounds (still don't) so I opted to bi-amp the front towers with last 2 x powered channels.

Fast forward 9 years and my 3067 is starting to play up. It will work when the room is hot, or after multiple turn on/off attempts. Having a read it does sound like I have the same issue as being talked about on these threads:

Question - Yamaha RXV3067 no sound

My RXV3067 just packed in, for a few weeks the sound was not coming on after the second relay clicked. I would turn it off and on again and usually it worked. Eventually that stopped helping so I did a full Initialization and then it worked again for a day or so then stopped. I then went through...

www.avforums.com

Problem with Yamaha receiver

Have a Yamaha RX-V3067 that started behaving very strange for a week. The sound disappears completely but the video remains (uses the receiver for only two speakers NO 5.1 / 7.1 mm), sometimes it may help to restart it a few times and change the source. Sometimes I have to do a factory reset...

www.avforums.com

The issue looks to be a bad join between the digital sound processor chip and board. I do have a friend who may be able to attempt the repair but I have reservations as does he.
I checked and found a Yamaha approved repair centre by me. I called and explained the issue and they advised they would not re solder the joint due to potential issues down the line, they would rather opt for replacing the board completely.
I think the cost of the board was roughly £245 plus £80 labour to fit - it is also not too far to travel so I won't need to post the unit.
They did say it might not be economical to repair as it might be cheaper to buy a new AVR.

I know it was a long time ago, but I am sure the AVR cost close to £3K!

Admittedly I have had some issues enjoying 4K (AVR is only HDMI 1.4) but I've worked round them now. My 4K bluray player has 2 x HDMI out, one audio and one video - so I can send one to display and one to the AVR to enjoy HD sound formats whilst watching Movies.
For the games console, Series X, there is no optical out, or 2nd HDMI, so I've had to connect to the TV via HDMI and use the optical back to the AVR to use the amp/speakers with gaming - this is fine for me at the moment.

Where my question goes; is it worth spending the money to fix the AVR? To me it feels like it is.
I did start to look at more recent Yamaha amps, keeping in mind I don't need more than 7 x powered channels in my current situation and whenever I have the space to do so I think I'd move to processor/amp separates.

As an example I was looking at the Yamaha RX-V6A - can pick it up for exactly double the repair price at £650
But is a 9+ year old £3K amp going to be comparable to a today's amp from the same brand at £650?

The output per channel is less:

RX-V6A
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) - 100 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)

RX-V3067
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) - 140W (8ohms, 0.06% THD)

I have a basic understanding that for every 3db louder, you need to double the wattage - so would this be negligible?


Essentially I did my research and have been happy with my setup for many years and I am wondering if it is worth repairing the AVR I currently have or time to buy new? Has there been improvements I'm missing, would a drop in wattage be noticeable? Was the 3067 over quoted and real world I was probably never really having 145 watts delivered per channel?

I don't want to buy a new AVR and be disappointed it doesn't live up to my old one

I've been out of the game and lack up to date knowledge and reaching out for any comments or advice from those who know more than me on this subject.

Any advice and help greatly appreciated, thank you!

 

[Deleted member 39241]

I found this post:

Yamaha RX-V1067, RX-V2067 and RX-V3067 **Owners Thread**

Just came across the product bulletin [PDF] for the upcoming Yamaha RX-V3067 receiver. Looks like a well specced amp. Does anyone have any idea when we might see this hit retail? Edit: For those interested, you can find the product bulletin PDF for the RX-V1067 here and RX-V2067 here.

www.avforums.com

Released in October 2010 for £1799.

Personally, I think it's time to move on and look for something newer. But, it will be the same sort of investment again, so if funds don't allow I guess you will have to gamble the repair and hope it holds out.

 

[Wildpredator]

Thanks for the input. My memory was well out there - not sure why I had £3k in my head

It would be nice to have everything terminate into the AVR again and not have workarounds.

Problem is I have nothing in my mind. Seems alot of the new amps for 2021 have issues with HDMI 2.1 which would be a factor in an upgrade.

I guess natural move for me would be the new Aventage line, assuming the 3080 is equivalent to what I have. Although phasing out for new line from what I've been reading.

Don't know whether to attempt to have it fixed and wait it out longer for new Yamaha line to come through.

Should imagine it's hard to demo in these Covid days - so if jumping brands I'd like to see how they pair and sound with I guess the Q750's now the Q line has been upgraded by Kef.

 

[Mr Wolf]

It's not as simple as comparing the 2CH rated output like you're doing due to differing PSUs.

The maximum rated power consumption for the RX-V6A is 590W while the RX-V3067 is 1100W. Take off say 100W for no signal power consumption and assuming 70% Class A/B efficiency, you can estimate maximum total usable amplifier wattages to be 343W and 700W respectively. So the RX-3067 would be much less stressed at all times.

That extra wattage will be backed up by greater power reservoir capacitors to help handle the dynamic peaks. RX-3067 has 36,000uF which is decent (for an AVR). I don't know what the RX-V6 has but you can count on it being appreciably less as the trend (with D&M at least) is to use less nowadays E.g. modern Denon AVR-X4xxx series only has 24,000uF vs 30,000uF in a 19 year old AVR-3802.

So if you listen quite loudly you might expect a downgrade in audio quality. You would need to step up to least the RX-A2080 to get a comparable Yamaha in terms of power.

 

[Deleted member 39241]

The maximum rated power consumption for the RX-V6A is 590W while the RX-V3067 is 1100W

Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!

Ever wonder how your favorite manufacturer rates power consumption on their AV receivers and how it relates to maximum available output power to your speakers? The answer may surprise you so read on.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Mr Wolf]

Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!

Ever wonder how your favorite manufacturer rates power consumption on their AV receivers and how it relates to maximum available output power to your speakers? The answer may surprise you so read on.

www.audioholics.com

That's an excellent article (saw it when it came out) but I'm not really sure if you're trying to make a point or not. I wasn't quoting the back panel nominal (max. expected during normal operation) ratings, those are 360W and 490W respectively for the two Yamahas in question.

The 590W and 1100W ratings are maximum wattages contained in the user manuals that have to be disclosed for use in certain countries. It reflects the maximum power the units could ever pull from a power socket under any scenario, normal use or otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 39241]

That's an excellent article (saw it when it came out) but I'm not really sure if you're trying to make a point or not. I wasn't quoting the back panel nominal (max. expected during normal operation) ratings, those are 360W and 490W respectively for the two Yamahas in question.

The 590W and 1100W ratings are maximum wattages contained in the user manuals that have to be disclosed for use in certain countries. It reflects the maximum power the units could ever pull from a power socket under any scenario, normal use or otherwise.

I'm not seeing that in the manual.

For the RX-V6A it says power consumption is 360 watts or 590 watts (depending on Country, presumably)

For the RX-V3067 it just says 490 watts, but that is in the UK manual. I can't seem to find the 1100 watts that you mention.

 

[Mr Wolf]

I'm not seeing that in the manual.

For the RX-V6A it says power consumption is 360 watts or 590 watts (depending on Country, presumably)

For the RX-V3067 it just says 490 watts, but that is in the UK manual. I can't seem to find the 1100 watts that you mention.

The RX-V6A manual does says "Maximum Power Consumption 590W". Apparently they have to say this for certain markets whereas in the U.S. they only have to show the weirdly calculated lower nominal maximum power consumption which is what it is not allowed to exceed by 10% in normal use (not ACD testing which is not normal use).

Actually, curiously for a Yamaha, the RX-V3067's seems manual makes no reference to any maximum power consumption at all, possibly because it was sold in a limited number of markets that didn't require the disclosure. The U.S. got the RX-A3000 instead of the 3067. I'm certain if disclosed it would be 1100W as I know this particularly vintage of Yamaha receivers fairly well because I bought a RX-V3900 (in run-off) in 2010 at the time the 3067/RX-A3000 were being released. Effectively the 3067 is a rebadged RX-A1000 (they even share the same service manual) and that model, I was advised by my Australian Yamaha dealer at the time, that they shared the same power stage as the RX-V3900 and DSP-Z7 (which both show 1100W max. consumption in their manuals).

The OP would do well to simply phone a Yamaha dealer who has experience with both models and seek his advice.

 

[dante01]

It's not as simple as comparing the 2CH rated output like you're doing due to differing PSUs.

The maximum rated power consumption for the RX-V6A is 590W while the RX-V3067 is 1100W. Take off say 100W for no signal power consumption and assuming 70% Class A/B efficiency, you can estimate maximum total usable amplifier wattages to be 343W and 700W respectively. So the RX-3067 would be much less stressed at all times.

That extra wattage will be backed up by greater power reservoir capacitors to help handle the dynamic peaks. RX-3067 has 36,000uF which is decent (for an AVR). I don't know what the RX-V6 has but you can count on it being appreciably less as the trend (with D&M at least) is to use less nowadays E.g. modern Denon AVR-X4xxx series only has 24,000uF vs 30,000uF in a 19 year old AVR-3802.

So if you listen quite loudly you might expect a downgrade in audio quality. You would need to step up to least the RX-A2080 to get a comparable Yamaha in terms of power.

You'd get no where close to the wattage you are suggesting per channel from either the older receiver or the newer V6 model.

The older RX-V3067 will still surpass the abilities of the entry level RXV6A despite its agae. It was originally a flagship AV receiver comparable to the RXA3080 now. The V6 is not comparable to a flagship AV receiver on many levels other than in terms of its power.

The rated power output (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) for the V3067 is 140 W (8ohms, 0.06% THD) and the RX-V5A would be 100 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD). The power consumption is neither here noer there.

The power available would decrease the more channels driven.

You'd need to be spending about £1.5K in ordr to buy a comparable AV receiver to the V3067. I've owned an RXV2065 and currently own anRXA1050. The V2065 was more powerful.

 

[ChuckMountain]

The new A8A whenever\if it turns up, would be the equivalent model. This is the one I am waiting to see, as I want to replace an RX-A3010, which was itself was the logical replacement to the RX-V3067 and the first iteration of the Aventage range.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Actually the RX-A3000 was the first iteration of the Aventage range but the UK didn't get it and got the RX-V3067 instead. As I said above, they're effectively the same model and even share the same service manual. Audioholics tested the RX-A3000 and rated it very highly in the power department.

Yamaha RX-A3000 Aventage 11.2 Networking A/V Receiver Review

@dante01 I'm not sure getting "nowhere close" to 700W of total amplifier power from the 3067 in practice is accurate when S&V got 88% of that amount from the similarly powered 7x140W RX-V3900 when they tested it at 88W/channel with 7 channels driven. The 88W wasn't clean power though which I presume is what you're talking about. A Class A/B efficiency assumption for getting clean power is probably closer to 55% which is what Audioholics were using in their power consumption calcs in the article Rambles linked. Either way, the RX-V6A is not a comparable model at all as you point out.

@ChuckMountain I'm also waiting patiently for a new high end Yamaha receiver release. I'm hoping for something resembling the Denon AVR-X6700 spec-wise but with old-school Yamaha build quality. I wouldn't even mind if they stuck with 9 on-board channels (like the 3080) as long as it offered 13.2 processing.

 

[dante01]

I'm due a new AV receiver, but cannot say I'm endeared to what is potentially going to be on offer from either DEnon, Marantz or Yamaha. I'd happily buy a Yamaha RXA2080 or an A1080 if I could still get hold of one rather than put up with the way Yamaha have screwed around with how their AV receiver now operate. The remotes are useless, the MusicCast app isn'rt comparable to the AV control app and HDMI handshaking appears to be abysmal. Just now ain't a good time to be looking for or wanting a new AVR.

 

[Wildpredator]

Wow - alot of feedback to take in there since my last visit

Appreciate all the comments and discussions it has helped my understanding further so thank you to everyone contributing!

I did remember it was flagship at the time - Aventage line was just coming out so was able to purchase this one in sales to make way for new stock.

I hadn't tracked the models and releases over the years and wasn't sure if I was out of touch with the new offerings - the price of the RXV6A also seemed cheap - but reading its really more entry level I can begin to understand why.

Thanks for the discussion and knowledge - I think I know my way forward now.

For those interested I'm going to opt to repair this AVR for now and wait for its new equivalent due sometime this year.

Reading and looking through natural replacement would of been RXA-3080 as I'd want to future proof some what - if I ever have the room to add side surrounds and 4 x atmos height channels, the 3080 can process 11.2, whereas the 2080 only 9.2 - as you can see from the original post I tend to buy and hold for sometime
I see most places are out of stock and running end of line but another factor is my next AVR I would want 4k/120, ALL, VRR etc. (I game as well as movie watching) so would need those specs included.

With everything going on in multiple brands having issues with the HDMI 2.1 spec with promised firmware updates I'm inclined to hold off for the new offerings and in the meantime have the repair done so I can continue enjoying content whilst waiting for the lineups.

Thanks everyone for helping me mull this over!

 

[dante01]

All you'd really need is an AV receiver with eARC. You'd then simply connect the next gen games console diretly to the display and pass the audio through and out the the AV receiver via eARC. eARC (enhanced) can convey HD formatted audio and multichannel PCM.

You'd not find an A3080 for sale anywhere now though.

 

[Wildpredator]

All you'd really need is an AV receiver with eARC. You'd then simply connect the next gen games console diretly to the display and pass the audio through and out the the AV receiver via eARC. eARC (enhanced) can convey HD formatted audio and multichannel PCM.

You'd not find an A3080 for sale anywhere now though.

Yeah - I kind of have another issue to that approach - my display doesn't do eARC :-( Does have ARC but would loose HD audio/PCM.

For now when running Xbox Series X I use the optical out - because of a different limitation. The TV only has 2 x ports for 4K enhanced - but one of those ports is the ARC port.
I
have 2 x 4k devices, 4K bluray player and Series X. The player has 2 x HDMI out so I can send one to input at amp (@ HDMI 1.4 spec, carrying audio only and flash screen for video) and the other to TV. The other port is used for Series X - so only option was a loop back to amp on optical.
For now I'd rather the best quality for movie sound over gaming.

I was running a Sony HW30 for many years - but wanted to move to 4K, so I caved and bought a new TV.
I still use the projector here and there, my main display is only a couple of years old and not ready to part with it (I have a TV graveyard here - don't like throwing working kit away!).

 

[dante01]

I'd suspect the display will not include HDMI version 2.1 or have the associated additional games features if lacking eARC. You'd therefore not be able to benefit from the additional features associated with the new gen games consoles anyway.

The TV would need at least HDMI version 2.1 to benefit from the additional gaming features associated with the XBox ssries X or the PS5. It would be very strange for any HDMI version 2.1 equipped TV not to include eARC.

Buying an HDMI 2.1 equipped AV receiver will not give you the additional abilities associated with the new gen consoles unless you also have a compliant display.

 

[Wildpredator]

I'd suspect the display will not include HDMI version 2.1 or have the associated additional games features if lacking eARC. You'd therefore not be able to benefoit from the additional features associated with the new gen games cpnsoles anyway.

The TV would need at least HDMI version 2.1 to benefit from the additional gaming features associated with the XBox ssries X or the PS5. It would be very strange for ay HDMI version 2.1 equipped TV not to include eARC.

You are on the money Dante - TV is only HDMI 2.0
I can run 1080/120 but not 4K/120 - for me the frame rate is the most appealing aspect.

But if I was buying a new AVR today I'd want all specs of HDMI 2.1 to be available to me for when I do replace the display.
I have a similar issue in that the new version of my current TV (not quite direct replacement, Sony lineup thinned down) has some issues with all 2.1 features too - not tracked it in depth but last I read users were waiting on firmware updates to hopefully alleviate issues and enable missing features.

But you are right - didn't think about not going for 2.1 AVR and utilising eARC from display as a different option for delivering the sound.

 

[gazzaboy]

Hi @Wildpredator ,
I'm going through a similar dilemma with my Yamaha RX-A1030, which went into a power protect mode last night. Just wondering if you went with repairs or got a new receiver. I know I've got a different fault but did you have an idea of price / turnaround time and if you had any recommendations for repair site? Cheers. Feel free to DM rather than post in thread. Many thanks!