1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Remixing

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by Dubbing Mixer, Aug 17, 2002.

  1. Dubbing Mixer

    Dubbing Mixer
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    643
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    By, and sometimes in, the sea
    Ratings:
    +2
    You might well remember the furore over 'colourising' black and white films, a few years ago, to make them more acceptable to an audience who resented paying for colour TVs and only getting black and white pictures.

    Is anyone else struck by the similarity of this argument to the current vogue for re-mixing films into 5.1?

    Should the film companies be messing about with the soudtracks of classic movies in this way? Presumably to justify the high cost of DVDs and to placate the people who have just spent a fortune on 5.1 equipment.
     
  2. Setenza

    Setenza
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +226
    Excellent point. I do not think theres a blanket answer. It really depends on the age of the film and whether there would be any serious artistic as well as aesthetic improvement to the end product, without compromising the origianl creative vision.

    As I stated on another thread, I have been watching a few old Will Hay comedies and these really would not benefit with any major re-maixing and experimenting with the sound.

    On products such as these, all I can really ask for is just a little added clarity with unnecessary "pops" and "crackles" removed if possible. Mono does have it's benefits at time.

    I'm sure others may disagree though, expecting all DVD releases, regardless of what there age, receiving major optical and audio enhancements.
     
  3. encaser

    encaser
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,566
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Suffolk/Essex
    Ratings:
    +112
    Interesting posit. There is the argument that the crackles etc. make for the aura of old pieces - think of vinyl to cds war of attrition - which I tend to go with within reason, as noted by Xusia. On reflection, when I had old records in the past but then updated to cd, I actually found myself missing the error moments and feeling cheated!
    In the end, whatever the end user's equipment is it's not going to match the vision of the creator wholly and the latter can get over-emphasised at times imo. The obvious middle-road would be to include options for each.
    I think most customers are satisfied with a decent av transfer AND extras as opposed to too many hangups on DTS/audiophile concerns. Documentary/interviews/commentary additions appear to be a draw to purchase of late. Personally, if the av is clear I'm happy. I don't like my escapist films deconstructed ad nauseum. More on topic, people with decent receivers etc. would no doubt be more open to disappointment anyway, as you suggest DM, because they will highlight the inappropriateness of fiddling for effect. If it aint broke, don't fix it.:)
     
  4. Dubbing Mixer

    Dubbing Mixer
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    643
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    By, and sometimes in, the sea
    Ratings:
    +2
    There is another angle on this.

    I would love to get my hands on some of the things I mixed in mono, simply because that is all the technology or budget would stand and redo them in current formats. I'm sure others would like to do the same. I'm not vain enough to believe I would necessarily improve on my previous efforts, but I'd love the opportunity to try. I'm often painfully aware of things I would have done differently with the tools I have now which I didn't then....

    However, my original point was, a LOT of movies are being re-mixed from their original formats for DVD release. Sometimes I think the results are excellent, other times, I'm not so sure. From a purists point of view this certainly does equate with 'colourizing'.

    (Whatever happened to that, perhaps another thread...)

    Equally, I think there are some movies which would enjouy a new lease of life with a decent soundtrack.

    I don't think there is an easy answer, but I'm grateful for any and all opinions.
     
  5. Jase

    Jase
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    9,407
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    South Coast
    Ratings:
    +856
    I think it may depend on the actual movie itself, though again, some people will disagree. As mentioned, some of the films that have been remixed are bloody awful (Highlander!), yet others (Backdraft) have been done quite well. I´d love to see more films remastered, remixed but done properly, not shoddy rush jobs that are bunged out on dvd to cash in.

    Be interesting to see what reaction you would have from "purists" and "av fans" alike if you compared an original film, print, sound etc to a well done remaster and remix in 5.1 (6.1 maybe). Wonder which would come out on top.:) Don´t forget in years gone by, they did´nt have the technical capability they do now, I have a feeling they would´nt have opted for mono if 5.1 was available to them.;)
     
  6. Dubbing Mixer

    Dubbing Mixer
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    643
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    By, and sometimes in, the sea
    Ratings:
    +2
    Exactly my point. Many movies (and TV dramas) were done in mono because of either the available technology or the cost. The same applies to colour. Some classic movies were only made in BW because colour was prohibitively expensive.

    So, is it legitimate to colorize these?
     
  7. Jase

    Jase
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    9,407
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    South Coast
    Ratings:
    +856
    If you asked a movie buff then he/she would probably say no. It´s how it should be, left alone etc etc. Ask an AV fan and the answer is more likely to be yes, give me colour, decent picture quality and 5.1 sound.

    Just a quick one about B&W, it can be used to good effect in modern films, Schindlers List is a prime example, 13 days is another, where certain scenes in B&W enhanced the film IMHO.
     
  8. Rambo John J

    Rambo John J
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,685
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Hanoi Hilton
    Ratings:
    +916
    If a film's going to be remixed then I personally think the original audio should be included as an option on the disc too. Sometimes the remixes just don't work or are disappointing, leaving me wishing I could listen to the original track, for comparison if nothing else. Nothing disappoints me more than a badly remixed 5.1 audio stream.
    I'm certainly not someone that'd moan or even refuse to buy it if a DVD was only mono.

    I can certainly see the point of someone wanting to go back and reconstruct their own soundmix. I often feel the same way about my exams at school.;)
     
  9. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,789
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,984
    Difficult question which is probably as much about artistic merit as anything else.

    In some, more recent, cases, a film might have been released with a mono soundtrack purely because of budgetary constraints at the time - the original Terminator is probably an example. In these cases, using the same logic that applies to the release (either on DVD or in cinemas) of 'directors cut' editions (eg The Abyss, Close Encounters....) it seems reasonable and appropriate that, given the opportunity and additional budget, a film is changed (soundtrack, or content) to what the director would have done if he/she could at the time.

    This is probably a different situation to a movie that was made in mono for either artistic reasons, or for reasons of technological constraint at the time.

    In any case, I agree that the DVD platform is an ideal opportunity to offer the end-user a choice. The R1 Terminator, if I recall, does include both a remixed 5.1 track (excellent IMHO) and a mono mix.
     

Share This Page

Loading...