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RELinquished finished

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Building DIY' started by IronGiant, Jun 28, 2003.

  1. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Last joint went together at 10:30 pm, so sound tests will have to wait until tomorrow.
    Biscuit cutters rule :D

    I put together the two parts of the front baffle with their biscuits, dry fit them and put the driver in, it wouldn't fit, the outer hole was too small. This was the one I had trouble with before I sussed out the router properly. I resized it with a sabre saw. I'm not proud of the result but it will be behind the grill.

    I cheated a bit, to hold the basic framework together while the PVA went off (at the base, back, brace and sides stage) I pinned through the 22mm MDF with 30mm brads from an electric nail gun. Not dreadfully structural in the long term, that's not what they were for, but worked a treat to keep it together while the glue dried, as I didn't have any long clamps.

    To pin the main front baffle to the box while the glue dried I used 4 70mm self-cutting screws, they will stay in place.

    The last piece to go in place was the top, I used a few biscuits and 6 70mm screws, just in case I need to get it apart again.

    Pictures at:
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jackie.marchington/subwoofer.htm

    I'd post pictures of my skinned shin and wrist as a result of todays endeavours, but there might be minors watching :D
     
  2. Exeter Man

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    Good stuff - you're a quicker worker than I am :D

    I also use screws to hold my stuff together until the glue dries, as I don't have enough BIG clamps for something like a sub. Every time I make something, I end up buying a new tool of some kind, so hopefully one day i'll have a few extra big clamps, but until then, i'll be sticking with nails and screws.

    What kind of finish are you going to use ?

    Regards
     
  3. RichardH

    RichardH
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    Looking good, Dave - Speedy Gonzalez!
    Look forward to the results of the listening tests!
     
  4. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    We're still undecided, either black ash sticky backed plastic (Taz did your stuff ever come, was it any good?) or a very dark veneer.

    Just going to put on the spikes, then cut the grass, then play :D

    Dave
     
  5. themadhippy

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    ya dont need big clamps,tie a length of rope around the joint and use a large screwdriver to tighten the rope,when tight enough the screwdriver also locks the rope in place
     
  6. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    I tried to get one of those sets with the right angled corners and rope but couldn't find one in time, didn't think of just using rope, Doh.

    Note to self, don't drill into a cabinet full of BAF wadding with a spade bit. It wrapped the wadding around itself and pulled a whole wodge of it out through the hole. Debating whether to just stuff it back in the hole or take the amp panel off and rearrange it properly I reluctantly did the latter. Just as well I did, it had also entangled the speaker wire and ripped it off the soldered spade terminals on the panel. It is a testament to the quality of the panel that the speaker wire (QED) snapped, not the terminal/ panel, although the PCB was pulled over by about 10 degrees.

    As incompetant installation/destruction testing is probably not covered in the BK warranty...

    I resoldered, put it back together and tentatively turned it on to check I hadn't destroyed it. It was during a QVC commercial break, I had it set on about 2-3, Jackie called from the back of the house, "did you you just turn the new sub on, because I can FEEL it in here"

    :D

    It goes way deeper than the Yamaha (205) it's replacing, yet throttled back it's also more subtle and this is without any attempt to set it up properly.

    Let the fun commence, I feel a dolby digital/DTS test coming on.

    Dave
     
  7. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    OK mad idea, how about finishing it off something like this, fabric sleeve, black marble top.

    Hmm, I put Romancing the Stone on over lunch, the kids are watching cbeebies in the bedroom as I type this, can't hear the film in the other room, but every so often the air quivers
     

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  8. RichardH

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    Why not? A lot of those sonotubes are finished with a fabric "sock". If you've got a lot of the fabric, why not use it?

    I'm being swayed by Exeter Man's real veneer route - he's just mailed me the price list and there's some lovely sounding stuff on there....
     
  9. Exeter Man

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    Regmarch,

    As long as you don't glue the fabric, you can always change it at a later date, or even have a number of different coloured 'socks' to suit your (or your wife's) mood.

    Thumbs up for the marble. I paid a packet for my granite top, so if you've got stuff lying around, why not use it.

    Regards
     
  10. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    It's our cheese board, it just happens to be the perfect width for planning purposes, if it were 2" deeper we'd be shopping for a new cheese board :D

    OMFG, what have I built?

    I set it up using the tried and tested "Star Trek Generations " test
    ie if the throbbing of the ship is distracting, the sub is too loud.

    Music has never sounded great on our home cinema, so just out of curiousity I threw a few MP3s at it.

    The whole sound stage has changed, music tended to be focussed on the centre speaker, now it is spread across the room. Bass is amazingly tight and controlled, but there is an additional presence in the air, grab a sofa and you can feel it trembling. Even vocals seem tighter and more polished. Pushing my luck I tried CDs of Toccata and Fugue and then Finlandia. Awesome!!! Every note was a revelation (even cymbols). Haven't got to a DVD yet, I've been listening to music all afternoon

    Dave
     
  11. Mat-Moo

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    What price dud that come in out of interest? And do you have a list for the other parts/bit`s`bobs you used?
     
  12. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Mat- I'll post a shopping list when I get home.
     
  13. Taz

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    Dave, Yeh it did come, its very good but I find Fablon to be more 'sticky' the only problem I had was its quoted at 453mm wide and the RTP15 is 450mm wide... guess what!... the vinyl was just under 450mm :rolleyes:

    But all in all not bad at all
     
  14. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Sorry Taz :( Hope you could still use it... I feel responsible.
    Why has black ash gone out of fashion since most hifi is still black?

    Dave

    EDIT: sometimes I wish I could look further ahead, we are now definitely thinking a fabric sleeve, with a granite top.

    400X400 mm is a standard size for a granite floor tile (ie cheap).

    The top of the sub is 400x443mm (ie expensive).

    Might have to end up with a floor tile and a gap at the back :)

    If i'd known at design stage I could have figured in a 400x400 top.

    I blame Exeter man for not posting his pics sooner :D

    Dave
     
  15. Taz

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    ;) RTP got round it no worries! :D Looks good......
     

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  16. RichardH

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    Dave, you could just plant on a hardwood nosing to fill the gap at the back.
    How's the sleeve going to work, as you don't want to cover the rear panel - will it just go round the front and sides, and be fixed to the rear? Some strips of Velcro should hold it nicely...
     
  17. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    The fabric is quite stretchy, so I was thinking of a tube with drawstrings
    at either end, to pull it an inch or so over the top and bottom, with the seam
    down the back, and a cut out window hemmed in to allow the amp panel to poke
    through. Your idea sounds a lot simpler and may be more attractive to my seamstress!
    Just preliminary thoughts at the moment until I know I can get the granite.

    Looks good Taz:)

    Dave
     
  18. RichardH

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    Thinking on it a bit more, you might be best to fix the two ends that would end up round the back to wooden battens, and then fix velcro to them - that would make it easy to keep the tension the same for the height of the sub.

    Just found a link to a granite floor tile supplier - they go up to 45cm (18") square - also their nominal 40cm stuff is actually 40.7 - 16" - so you might be in luck if you look around. Their limestone looks rather nice too. Doubt they'd be a sensible place to buy a one off from though....
     
  19. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Got home after dropping the kids off this morning to find postie just about to write out a card to drop through the letter box, so was able to save him the bother and accept delivery of 2 SLP meters. I've downloaded some mp3 test tones but was wondering if I should go to the effort of getting them on CD/DVD. A tone is a tone isn't it ? will it be any better for being on a DVD?.

    The Dolby surround test CD can be had for £14.99 from amazon, the new digital video essentials DVD is out on the 14th for £13.99 from play (don't know if it's audio tests are any better than it's predecessor's though, ie minimal) and of course there's the AVIA disk which I think is still available here for £25.

    Any thoughts?

    Dave
     
  20. RichardH

    RichardH
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    Dave, I have Avia - I'll post it up to you to borrow. It is the best one to have, simply because you get taught lots of info by a man in a very lovely "smart casual" jumper :D :D

    EDIT - it's in the post. I've included the colour strips as well, so you can have a play calibrating you tv, too.
     
  21. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Cheers Richard, not planning on using your SPL meter then?
    :D

    Dave

    PS Goodness we're all working late tonight, look at the time :eek:
    Definitely says we're on GMT :laugh:
     
  22. RichardH

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    LOL - the server must be a little confused.

    I can wait for the meter - send the disc back at the same time if you want.

    Just been playing with the Linkwitz stuff - not really sure how far to take it - perhaps Dan Gleebles (or other speaker gurus) can offer some suggestions re this driver and LRC.
     
  23. banners

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    Dave, stick your slab on top and add a trim (wood) front and back to suit your decor. You can easily add a chamfer or something to the wood to break the edge a little.
    Worth a try?

    cheers steve
     
  24. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Looks like someone noticed, back in real time now.

    Had a quick play with the mp3 files, too short to do anything too clever, but my room/system clearly has some weird peaks and troughs in it, so looking forward to the disk. I'll pack it all up together, thanks. I'll do the tests, find out how low it goes then we can take it from there: LRC?

    Thanks banners, that's probably the route to go, I don't much fancy rebuilding the box to get a tile to fit.

    Dave
     
  25. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    it just occured to me that none of you guys realise that I'm quite happy playing with granite, so long as I can get it cheap. When we redid our kitchen I used 30x30cm pale granite floor tiles from Wickes at £5.99 a go for the work surfaces, here's a detail where I boxed in the central heating pipes. I'm going to ask the italian site how much they'd charge for shipping.
     

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  26. RichardH

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    Sorry Dave - "LRC" - Linkwitz-Riley Correction. :rolleyes:

    Just noticed that granite site offers free samples (you pay shipping) - how about a full 40x40 tile as sample.... :D


    EDIT - one other thing - try moving the sub around the room, too - that will have a big impact on the response, I'll bet...
     
  27. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    I resisted the temptation and asked them to quote me for a single tile in 16" and 18".

    I'll try a few different places after looking at the Avia tutorials and doing some graphs. The disk arrived bright and early this morning.

    Dave
     
  28. RichardH

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    Lovely jumper, isn't it!
     
  29. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Richard, I've sent you an email...

    Dave

    Edit/explanation:

    Something sat on Richard's Avia disk while the GPO whisked it over, clearly "Please don't bend " is considered a challenge.

    It now has a nasty crack in it and we've applied a CD label as a band aid to try and hold it together. Fortunately the crack is on the label side not the data side.

    Dave
     
  30. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Richard, you are a cruel man, just because that jumper is 20 years out of date...

    Well this disk taught me a few things tonight.

    1) You can band-aid a disk

    2) Wow these guys can play with a digital connection, they sent every signal to exactly the speaker they wanted to, now I know why a test disk is worth having on DVD.

    3) Next thing it showed me was that the entire signal from the left channel was also being fed to the subwoofer at high volume via the High Level Circuit, even though this was on minimum. (I unplugged it, further investigation required, maybe I wired it up wrong).

    My ears, and the simple phase tests, had told me we should use phase 2.

    Because Jackie is musically trained I got her to sit in the sweet spot to pick up all the differences and monitor the SPL , I sat next to the subwoofer by the home cinema to persuade PowerDVD to play things (PowerDVD in our setup has a habit of dropping sound)

    The wild swings on the SPL during the warble
    sweep tests told us we were completely wrong on the phase.

    Switching to the other phase gave a steady meter. Because we were used to cheaper subs I had been picking the wrong phase. :rolleyes:

    In the right phase, in the warble sweep: as it got very low we were very aware we couldn't hear it anymore, however the meter was still measuring it, and my appendix was starting to hurt:clap:

    :D :D

    Dave
     

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