Rel Strata 5 Settings

norge

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I had to place my sub in a corner under one of my rear speakers. There are instuctions on manual how to adjust for phase when using hi level input. When testing for phase, should just the front speakers be on? As I only notice the difference in phase when the surround speakers are on as well.

The manual seems to state that the hi level input has to be set just for stereo output.

Thanks
 
Now, this might be unkind, but a number of RELdanistas, have kicked up a storm on here lately.:rolleyes:

Apparently REL and their owners have the answers to everything, so inspite of your honest question, I'm going to sit back and see what happens.:rolleyes:

The truth is, I'd like to see them deliver an answer for a REL user, rather than a negative answer for users of any other sub. They never give full, technical, answers for other REL users. I wonder why that is?

Your question has been an answered a few times, to say the least, but I implore the the forum regulars to hold back and allow the regular REL users to fill their boots.

It shoud be interesting.

Russell
 
I had to place my sub in a corner under one of my rear speakers. There are instructions on manual how to adjust for phase when using hi level input. When testing for phase, should just the front speakers be on? As I only notice the difference in phase when the surround speakers are on as well.

The manual seems to state that the hi level input has to be set just for stereo output.

Thanks

I wouldn't be using high level connections with a sub placed behind the listener.

When you use high level connections you expect the sub to underpin the main/stereo speakers. A low pass filter with a very low frequency setting ensures the minimum of overlap between speakers and subwoofer.

Placing the sub behind you means the subwoofer is now competing with the main/stereo speakers rather than helping. This will almost certainly lead to phase-related humps and bumps because of the distance between the units. The subwoofer is also much more likely to noticed as being behind you.

Lets assume you adjust the subwoofer's phase to match your rear speakers. The sub is now working at its best with your rear speakers. But you don't use rear speakers for stereo music listening where sound quality and a flat frequency response are most desirable.

If you really have no room for your subwoofer up at the front between your main/stereo speakers can't you face your whole system the opposite way?
Or even listen across your room rather than along it?

Placing your subwoofer behind you is usually the worst of all the possible alternatives. Will it go under a coffee table or other furniture to hide its presence?

If you really have no choice then you must try adjusting phase while sitting in your usual seat with only the front main/stereo speakers running if music is most important to you. If films are your main interest then try adjusting phase with all speakers running. For films I'd be using a low level connection anyway.
 
Firstly I would use both the high and low level connections for best results.

Make sure the low level subwoofer output from your AV receiver is connected to the 'LFE' input on the Strata 5.

Set the low level gain on the Strata 5 to about 50-60. Further adjustments to the subwoofer level can be made using the settings on the AV receiver and an SPL meter. Set all the speakers to small and a crossvoer setting of 80Hz. Using the SPL meter set all of the channels so that they are outputting 75dB, or if that is not possible at least make sure they are all at the same level.

Now for the high level connection.

The first thing to to do is set the phase correctly. Set your AV Receiver to it's 'Stereo Direct' or 'Pure Direct' mode so that when playing back stereo material it is only sending a signal to the front left and right channels and not the subwoofer. You may need to play about with other settings on the AV Receiver to tell it that when playing stereo material not to use the subwoofer at all.

With the high level connected to the front left and right speaker outputs on the receiver and with the receiver in 'Stereo Direct' mode set the high level gain on the subwoofer to about 50 (this will not be the final setting used) and the crossover to roughly where your front speaker's lowest listed frequency response is, a bit higher is actually better.

Playback some stereo material with a fairly repetetive really deep bassline and whilst doing so switch between the two phase settings using your remote control from your listening position. There should be one setting that seems noticeably louder than then other, this is the setting to leave it on.

Adjusting the crossover and the level settings are a bit trickier as they affect each other. Again from you seating positon keep reducing the crossover setting until you sense that the output from the subwoofer is not adding to the audio track in a way that is balanced with the main speakers. The same needs to be done with the high level gain adjustment, slowly reducing it until you cannot discern that the subwoofer is doing anything. You are pretty much at the right settings here but you may need to go back and forth bteween the crossover and gain setting until you find a combination that's just right. Once you have found a combination that works well and the subwoofer seems to be providing a valuable input to the sound, I would set both the crossover and gains settings one or two notches down and save it at that point.

There you go, that's how I would do it, after having been trained by REL. There is one other important part to that procedure which is positioning the subwoofer, but I guess you don't have a lot of flexibility there.
 
Have you ever considered doing this for a living Crusty? :D

Very diplomatic glossing over the subwoofer position like that. ;)

Go on then. What do REL say about rear positioned subwoofers?
 
Have you ever considered doing this for a living Crusty? :D

You know what, I might just do that. Thanks. :thumbsup:

Very diplomatic glossing over the subwoofer position like that. ;)

Well I figured if the guy doens't have any other options there's no point dwelling on it.

Go on then. What do REL say about rear positioned subwoofers?

Front left or front right corner behind the main speakers is best, but seen as the OP can't do that, I thought I'd least cover all of the other aspects of setting it up correctly.
 
Front left or front right corner behind the main speakers is best,...
Is that standard REL practice?

If so, why do they go for the one position that guarantees that all room modes are excited. As opposed to, that is, closest to the position which excites the fewest?

Russell
 
Waw....great response...thanks.

No, unfortunately Crustyloafer, you are right, I have no space....Good to know so that in my second AV system I will leave space for sub in front.

Regarding settings for High level input I guess speakers should be set to large? Which makes sense to me. That is what I did. Or not necessary?

Regarding Low level input which is suitable for watching films, should the high level be set to zero? That is what I did. Or they can be used simultaneously? -- I mean High and Low inputs at the same time?
 
Is that standard REL practice?

Yes it is.

If so, why do they go for the one position that guarantees that all room modes are excited. As opposed to, that is, closest to the position which excites the fewest?

I cannot honestly answer that, for whatever reason it is the position that they feel give the best performance overall. It might be worth you phoning REL themselves to explain it in more detail.
 
Regarding settings for High level input I guess speakers should be set to large? Which makes sense to me. That is what I did. Or not necessary?

I would recommend setting all of your speakers to small on the AV receiver. That way when used for surround sound the AV receiver is doing all the bass management and the main speakers only have to deal with the easier stuff to reproduce. However for stereo playback I would switch to a stereo direct mode which will switch off all of the receiver's speaker management and treat the fronts as large speakers, the subwoofer will then get its signal from the high level input and blend in seamlessly with the fronts. This effectively allows you to operate a small+sub arrangement with an 80Hz crossover for movies, but when you listen to stereo material you get to use your fronts as full range speakers and the subwoofer only comes in at the crossover setting you have set on the subwoofer allowing it to compliment the main speakers and not reproduce anything they can do on their own anyway.

Regarding Low level input which is suitable for watching films, should the high level be set to zero? That is what I did. Or they can be used simultaneously? -- I mean High and Low inputs at the same time?

You can have being used simultaneously, this is one of the key features of REL subwoofers and is what allows you to use them as described above.

If you are still having difficulty setting everything up correctly then your REL trained dealer should be able to provide an on-site setup service.
 
I was interested, purely because that's exactly the way REL were demoing the B1 at Bristol and it clearly didn't work for that room.

I would phone REL but one, it'd be wasting their time and two, I suspect my MD might go potty at me making international personal calls.

Russell
 
I was interested, purely because that's exactly the way REL were demoing the B1 at Bristol and it clearly didn't work for that room.

Hi-Fi Shows are never a good representaion of how well a product performs, you should know that better than most.

I would phone REL but one, it'd be wasting their time and two, I suspect my MD might go potty at me making international personal calls.

I gues you are a bit farther away from Bridgend in Wales than Cambridge at the moment then?
 
Hi-Fi Shows are never a good representaion of how well a product performs, you should know that better than most.
I've been thinking about that lately. It seems to me that some products always shine, regardless. I'm thinking PMC, Naim, Totem, JM Lab and Vienna Acoustics in the REL room for a handfull of examples. All produced excellent sounds you'd be happy to enjoy in your own front room. Indeed in your case, you are already doing so.

I'm wondering if for the rest, it's a handy excuse for a product that only works under limited circumstances. That's a general wonder by the way and not one specific to, or aimed at REL. M&Ks room sounded crap for instance. It just seems that the really good stuff is always really good.

I gues you are a bit farther away from Bridgend in Wales than Cambridge at the moment then?
;)

Russell
 
If you are still having difficulty setting everything up correctly then your REL trained dealer should be able to provide an on-site setup service.

Well I have bought my Rel from Uk so they would not be that happy to assist...I guess.

You can have being used simultaneously, this is one of the key features of REL subwoofers and is what allows you to use them as described above.

To be used simultaneously when playing movies, it implies with speakers set to small then, the high level input would be feeding signals above 80Hz and the low level input below 80Hz? Hence the whole low frequency range is fed to sub if I am correct. And here I can see better the point of the High level input.

So I would say why not to set speakers to large as the strata manual suggests with cross over say, 40Hz...You think the aegis evo3 would not drive well with frequencies below 80Hz? Well sound maybe not that clear? I will try your suggestion anyway but not before Friday.

Something else crossover in sub setting say you set it to 33Hz....it implies frequencies above 33Hz are rejected or the other way round? I think this was one of my main problems as I left it 16Hz!!

Regarding stereo output I understand that the high level signal feeds the sub. What if on amplifier there is a setting for stereo to include sub as well....then I assume that signal is fed from both high and low level as for movies. With Left and right speakers and sub, are speakers considered as small in amplifier?
 
So I would say why not to set speakers to large as the strata manual suggests with cross over say, 40Hz...You think the aegis evo3 would not drive well with frequencies below 80Hz? Well sound maybe not that clear? I will try your suggestion anyway but not before Friday.

Even though your Evo 3s are quite capable of producing bass below 80Hz, this puts a lot more strain on the amplifier. My configuration allows the subwoofer to do all of the hard work for movies, but only come in where necessary when playing music.
 
Thanks for all....and I understand your point very clearly....Wanting the most from my system, I like to see all possibilities..

I have slightly edited my previous post and asked some more questions....but I think the crossover in sub is just to control the range of frequencies for high level input....

Am I right if I say the crossover in sub does not affect the low level input?

If assign surround back to front speakers, (sort of bi amping) will it still be too hard for amplifier to drive frequencies below 80Hz....in other words set speakers to Large?

Just for my own info...in the case of setting main speakers to Large and crossover in sub set to say 33Hz, then frequencies below 33Hz are delivered to sub by both low and high inputs. Will that cause damage to the sub?

Thanks
 
To be used simultaneously when playing movies, it implies with speakers set to small then, the high level input would be feeding signals above 80Hz and the low level input below 80Hz? Hence the whole low frequency range is fed to sub if I am correct. And here I can see better the point of the High level input.

I think here I am not completely right. Sub is fed all frequency range but if sub crossover is set to 33Hz, I think sub would reject frequency signals above 33Hz coming from the high level input. So this would imply that frequencies below 33Hz are amplified through the high and low level circuitry for a better effect? Maybe amplified more than the frequencies above 33Hz?
 
I think here I am not completely right. Sub is fed all frequency range but if sub crossover is set to 33Hz, I think sub would reject frequency signals above 33Hz coming from the high level input.

Yes that is correct

So this would imply that frequencies below 33Hz are amplified through the high and low level circuitry for a better effect? Maybe amplified more than the frequencies above 33Hz?

No, the receiver will either send information below 80Hz via the low level connection and nothing above 80Hz via high level connection

Or, the receiver will send full range information via high level and nothing via low level. The subwoofer will then filter out the stuff above 33Hz leaving the main speakers to do that.
 
No, the receiver will either send information below 80Hz via the low level connection and nothing above 80Hz via high level connection

Not even below 80Hz via high level (Even with speakers set to large)? So this would mean that the low frequency signal is fed to sub either through low level or high level

Maybe I have my answer to my question:

If speakers are set to Large and receiver set to LFE Only, then sub gets its low frequency signal via the high level cable only; In this case the crossover setting in sub would determine the low frequency signal.

If speakers are set to Large and receiver set to LFE+MAIN, then sub will get the low frequency signal via the low level cable only....frequency response in sub would be according to that set in receiver's crossover....So say if receiver crossover frequency is set to 80Hz, all frequencies below 80Hz are passed to both main speakers and sub. In this case I think crossover setting in sub has no effect.

You can have being used simultaneously, this is one of the key features of REL subwoofers.....
So what did you mean here? That the sub can be used for different settings... high level for stereo and low level for cinema?
 
Look, basically the subwoofer has a crossover that is active only on the high level input and can filter the signal being fed to the main speakers and thus reproduce only the stuff that the main speakers are not capable of doing themselves.

Via the low level input the receiver does all the bass management. If the speakers are set to small then nothing below 80Hz will be sent to the speakers. If the speakers are set to large then LFE is sent via low level connection to the subwoofer and a full range signla is sent to the speakers, of which the stuff below lets say 33Hz is also reproduced by the subwoofer via high level.

What I meant by both being able to be used simultaneously is exactly that, most other manufaturers only allow you to one or the other connected at the same time, wheras the RELs allow you to have both connected at the same time and use the configuration as I have described.

What I am basically saying is that because you have set all the speakers as small, when you are watching movies the receiver decides what to sent to the subwoofer and what not to. When listeing to stereo music, I would switch the receiver to 'Pure Direct' mode which will disable all of your speakers setttings and the main speakers will be treated as large again. When in 'Pure direct' mode the subwoofer will get its signal from the high level input but when watching movies the subwoofer will get its signal from the low level input becasue nothing below 80Hz is being sent to the main speakers.

I'm starting to feel like I am repeating myself here and that a more fundamental understanding of your receiver's functions is necessary on your behalf.
 
Thanks m8....The Denon's receiver settings are slightly different but regarding sub it is all clear. Now the next thing is to try and get the most of it as I can

Cheers:thumbsup:
 
Crusty is right.

If you go into the Denons 'Setup' menus, in 'Advanced Playback' there is the option to set Direct/Pure Direct to playback without the sub.

This means the LFE output is disabled, so the REL will only be fead via the high level input from the speakers which are now playing as large (full range).

Russell
 
I was reading a thread on sub placements.....It seems that some subs can be placed at the rear with no problems. Is it just the rel strata that have to be placed at the front to achieve optimum performance?

I have tested my sub but seems when I change phase there is no difference. I try again and let you know the final results. My problem is time.

Which sub would you recommend for my future system to accompany the Aelite speakers. Will the strata 5 be ok?

Thanks
 
Hello again...

Been playing around with various setings on amp and sub. Finally I am getting good response from sub

Now, that I have bi-amped my sytem (assigned surround back to front) ....

Is it still necessary to assign speakers to small with crossover at 80Hz

Or maybe better set to large with crossover to 80Hz so that low frequencies are fed both to sub and main speakers. Maybe this setting would introduce too much base?

Personally, I tried both and each time I have to reset some settings...maybe depends on what you are hearing. However, would like to know some opinions about this.

Thanks
 

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