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REL Storm +sub/Sat speaker combo quandry

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by AvAl, Oct 16, 2003.

  1. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Hi A/V fans. I have a dilemma:
    Am about to upgrade my amp (Sony STR DB925) and speakers (Bose AM10) to something more up to date. I also have a REL Storm which I want to keep. I have a room which is 20x18, so small speakers I feel are best for my room (and keep it liveable in!) hence the Sub/Sat route. I've been looking at getting the KEF 2005.2 'eggs' speaker/ sub, and Denon 1803 amp (as 80W per channel is enough power in a small room plus keeps the costs down:smoke: ).
    Now my problem: All the sub /sat systems seem to use an active sub, but the REL storm is active itself. I know the REL is a great stand alone Sub, so really want to incorporate it somehow, but, the question is, which route should I go for surround speakers.
    If I'm right, I could connect the Storm at High Level, through the front left and right speaker amp terminals, but I can't help think that I'm taking away from the job that the KEF sub should be doing in the more mid to lowish range, and then lose out on the really good quality low LOW bass where I would LIKE the REL to be, on a nice LFE channel low crossover frequency! I guess I'm just a little perplexed right now as to what I could or SHOULD do.
    All your suggestions would be appreciated, I'm open to lots of ideas. If I really need bigger stand alone speakers (always probably the best option rather than a sub/sat compromise) then I would consider, unless anyone out there can give a good sub/sat - REL option setup. Thanks in advance, Alex
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Why not just buy the KEF eggs without the sub and use them with your REL Storm instead.
     
  3. AvAl

    AvAl
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    That certainly sounds a very simple and workable solution, Ian. Do you think they would match up okay? Another thought, if, in that case I was looking just for 6 speakers to go with the REL, any thoughts on maybe a different set of speakers?
     
  4. russraff

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    REL subs integrate into just about any speaker configuration, albeit with some setup shinanigans! Speaker integration is one of REL's strong suits. I would also suggest that a REL Storm will out perform a PSW2000/2500 that comes with the Kef Eggs.

    I am not a great fan of KEF eggs, prefering the sound of some slightly larger speakers, like KEF's Q1 for example. These will outperform the KEF eggs and for little initial outlay. So I would get 2 pairs of Q1's and a Q9c which I find to be pretty good centre, too.

    If you still want to go the sub/sat route, then the Ruark Vita series are v. good. Again you'd be looking at just the sats as you will use the REL for LFE.

    Russell
     
  5. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Yes, Russell (and Ian), thanks! Some good choices there, now I can see that I'm just after speakers and not also a sub AND sat combo - quite a relief! Guess I'm coming round to possibly some slightly bigger speakers, though still not dominating. Will listen to both tomorrow, and see what else there could be at Home Entertainment Show on in Manchester over Friday and the weekend (Renaissance Hotel).
     
  6. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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    Glad I read this thread AvAl. Is the Renaissance the big hotel at the end of Deansgate?

    Any ideas what time it starts? I'm in Manchester on Saturday morning and this would be an ideal time to visit.

    Cheers

    chris
     
  7. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Hi Chris,

    Never actually been, but it's on Blackfriars Street, Opposite No1 Deansgate, if that helps.

    Saturday it starts 10- 6 pm, Sunday 10 - 5.30pm

    Hopefully find some interesting stuff there today myself...just about to go now!

    Good hunting,

    Alex
     
  8. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Oh, forgot....costs the mighty sum of £3 to get in
     
  9. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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    Cheers AvAl

    Think I can just about run to that ;)

    Chris
     
  10. lowrider

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    If you buy the eggs, get a receiver with variable xover, they work best at 120hz...

    I would rather get some speakers that go down to 60hz well enough, and a receiver with that xover choice, I find 80hz still directional, and subwoofers work better at lower frequencies...
     
  11. Rainbow6

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    Lowrider,
    Can you say which receivers from the following have this variable xover - and would work well with eggs?

    Yamaha RXV640
    Pioneer 812 or 912
    Marantz 5300 or 5400

    Cheers.
    Jim
     
  12. lowrider

    lowrider
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    I think most recent models will do that, can someone help... :rolleyes:
     
  13. Nobber22

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    Yamaha RXV640 - no, set at 90hz only

    Pioneer 812 or 912 - can't find ANY info anywhere - someone must know?

    Marantz 5300 or 5400 - yes, set to 60/80/100/120

    :)
     
  14. rauer

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    Denon AVR-3803 has a variable cross-over 40 to 120 Hz. Many people may consider the receiver being overkill for the eggs but that's what I'm using anyway.
     
  15. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Hey Chris,

    I just got back from the Exhibition. When you go, go to the NAD room, and take a listen. I found the T562 reciever (100W) and 820 speaker setup (90W) beautiful. I'd never considered NAD until I walked in the room. I've bought the speakers (£495 - includes 10% off for buying there, front L+R, same two for the rears and a really natural sounding centre) today, and am SERIOUSLY considering the amp to go with it (I've seen it for about £800ish. I found the setup the most natural sounding of all the systems I heard there, including most of the more expensive ones. I was very unimpressed (in comparison) with the KEF eggs/ Denon combo. The guy in NAD said, 'you come back and tell me this sound isn't the best bookshelf speakers' here.' I thought, yeah, right, but...I had to go back for another listen. To my ears, he was right. I went back. Lovely and natural sounding.
    Anyway, that's just my opinion and my ears :)

    ps. Denon had a terrible setup, I thought. No AV stuff at ALL, just a few stereo amps and tiny speakers. I went there looking forward to hear all their big AV amps, but nothing!

    Ah well. I had fun, though my wallet is lighter, and could be getting alot lighter
     
  16. Rainbow6

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    AvAl,
    Are these NAD speakers, or what brand are they? Also, you weren't impressed with the Eggs, eh? How come? Could you elaborate?
    Thanks for your thoughts.
    Jim
     
  17. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Hi Jim,

    Yes, sorry, I should have said that the speakers were NAD 820. Well, I admit the 'eggs' setup was not the most professional. They were just along one full side wall of the Practical HiFi sales room, and I just happened to find them. I can only judge from how my ears found them, and I admit I'm no expert. I found them rather dull and lifeless. Maybe it was because I'd heard so many other systems by then.
    The movie played was Gladiator, the scene where Gladiator and his mates have those chariots with spikes coming closer and closer. I have that DVD, so I can compare it with my Bose AM's/ REL Storm setup. It was clean enough and pleasant, there were some nice thuds from the sub, but it just didn't invlove me. I think I was waiting to be 'drawn in', and I wasn't. I'm sure many others out there will disagree, and maybe I'm wrong, however, size will always matter; that I realise now, but as always you should listen yourself and see what YOU think. I found NAD really nice to my ears; refreshingly natural I think I'd say, in fact I wondered if I found them bland at first, but as I sat back and listened, I thought, no, it just sounds...natural. Apparently, alot of other people said they found this setup the 'best' too, though that was what the rep said...I can believe it, if nothing else, it's different. I was expecting more from the 'eggs'. But...that's just me :)
     
  18. SanPedro

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    AvAl

    Didn't even know they did speakers!!!
    Are these brand new? Even their website has nothing on them. I used to have a 3020 stereo amp I bought as a student along with a Dual 505 and B&W speakers. Great system for 1984.

    Must have a listen, although I'm not in the market just yet. Shame about the Denon stuff. Was really looking forward to seeing at least a 3803 with some decent speakers.

    Were there any new projectors on display?

    Chris
     
  19. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Chris,

    Neither did I, and your right, I looked at the NAD site ealier too...NO speakers! Not sure how new they are, but go and have a listen to the setup, and tell me what you think, see if someone else feels as I do. They had a nice projector there too (lots on display throughout in Exhibition) I don't know what make NAD had, but it was £5,000 DLP and threw a nice 80inch-ish pic. I did see the NEC HT1000 in the MJ acoustics room, and was very unimpressed, but maybe they were just trying to get too big a picture from it. Independance Day looked far too blurred and blocky, I thought. Speakers there were okay, but not a patch on NAD.
    As for Denon, I heard, I think, a 3803 in one of the rooms, can't remember the name of the Co., Canton, I think, if you go up the stairs, it was the first room on the right on the second or third floor, but I'm sure you'll find it, one thing for sure, it ran their top in speakers very well, but there tall £1,500 silver jobbies were a real let down. I only heard music with those though.
    Hope you enjoy. Let me know what your impressions were of what you were looking for/ heard/saw if you don't mind.

    Alex
     
  20. russraff

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    I think those NAD speakers are these ones here . NAD used to make some pretty good speakers, though they haven't made any recently. I seem to remember NAD speakers only working thier best with NAD amplification, for some reason (which is kinda obvious, now that I think on it!).
    That NAD T762 amp that you heard driving them is one of the best amps I have heard. It's certainly demonstrably better than the Denon 3803 IMO. Details here

    Russell
     
  21. lowrider

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    Those NAd speakers where in Lisbon´s Audishow, they are made by PSB
     
  22. Rainbow6

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    Interesting. PSB site says give US and Canadian dealers. But are they sold here in the UK? And by whom? And can anyone else say what they think of them?
    Cheers,
    Jim
     
  23. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Lowrider and Rainbow,

    When I went to the Exhibition, I took away a leaflet on the 820 when I was still weighin up getting them, and summarizing, it said:

    ...Our sister company, PSB Speakers, world renowned Canadian firm founded by...Paul Barton...with the universally praised PSB designs and three decade heritage of accuracy and musicality, as our starting point...

    looking at them both they look the same, so I think it's probably fair to say, they are simply rebadged PSB

    Alex
     
  24. SanPedro

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    AvAl

    Agree with you on the NEC 1000. Looked crap for the money. But maybe it hadn't been set up right. Best PJ for the money (IMO) was the Sim 2 Domino. Looked absolutely stunning for a similar price to the NEC. Rich deep blacks and a really cinematic feel to it. The new sony HS20 looked good for the money. juts a hint of the LCD chickenwire effect. But then it was projected at 10ft across and i was only sat about 8-10 ft away.

    Liked the sound of the Revolver speakers on the top floor, plus the Acoustic energy Evo set up. Agree with you on the MJ Acoustics speakers. they didn't sound too involving. Did you see the REL demos? It didn't actually feel like they had any sub working to be honest. The rep was spouting some technobabble andthen make some comment, after which I'd think "nope, can't tell the difference" seemed like a real Emperors clothes routine to me.

    Mission demos were too music biased. Sub was too boomy I thought.
    Kef's new lifestyle system sounded too harsh for me. Hurt my ears it did.

    The demo in the Denon room downstairs was cool. but then it should be for £60K plus!! :D

    Didn't get round to NAD properly.

    chris
     
  25. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Chris

    Let's hope the NEC PJ wasn't set up right, but it should have been better. Sim, was probably one of the few places I didn't pop my head round and take a listen/view, but seems we both agree of picture quality of projectors and speakers. I agree with you about the Sony HS20. Cracking picture for that huge size, but I just don't have a wall big enough for that sucker! Sod it...time to brick up the door and get in through the window!!
    Agree with the REL setup too. I was expecting more from that room and the KEF's.

    The guy in NAD said to keep speakers not too near the walls if possible and put sub out of phase with speakers to negate the 'boom' sound and draw the lower frequencies out of the speakers and into the sub. He seemed to know his stuff, and have set the A/V equipment up right, and I'll try doing what he said. I suffer from that 'boom' cause I have literally nothing to absorb the sound in the room (wooden floors, plastic coating on the walls)

    You'd think they'd all do everything in their power to setup as well as they possibly can with so many people istening to their stuff, possibly for the first time.

    I couldn't listen too much to just 'music' setup's. You're like me and needed to hear the a/v sound above music. That's my 'thang' too.

    Missed the Denon room downstairs! Ah, well. I can't stretch to a 60K setup :eek: ...this week at least ;)

    So, have you decided on anything to buy now, or in the future?

    Alex
     
  26. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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    Sim 2 Domino (or equivalent). It had the 'wow' factor for me. A definite trade up from my AE100. (when I have the cash)

    Receiver: I think I'll go 2nd hand. Ditto speakers.

    With your own room, are you going to try some treatments? Rugs, more furniture etc? Worth a pop. Put some curtains up to go round the room even.

    chris
     
  27. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Very cool looking projector indeed! Haven't seen that one before or read reviews, but if you like the picture, then it's the one for you. Good man!
    Your AE 100. What do you make of it? Pro's - con's. Next step for me is a resonably priced projector.

    New sofas etc due in the near future, so that might make a difference. Actually I have do rugs on the floor, but more of the real hard-wearing type rather than fluffy, and they keep the floor from being scratched by the sofa rollers. I'm hoping that a) better speakers and b) better amp and c) a proper sub setup will help things out a bit, so I'll take it from there.

    Alex
     
  28. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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    Alex

    I still like it. Colours look great. Blacks are not as good (obviously) as HS20 or Sim 2. But considering it can be bought for around £700 new... it's a steal. I've had a couple of reliability issues - the power supply and colour uniformity. i'll be investing in an extended warranty next month just in case. I also have mine running through a ProV which as a £100 de-interlacer and upscaler. It made a big difference to the image (esp on SKY) as I was only running S video to it. You're welcome to a demo any time.

    After the weekend I realise I need a bigger screen. Mines just a £40 6ft blackout. Need n 8ft I think for real impact.

    MODS: sorry to be OT. will go to PM if this thread continues. OK with you Alex?

    Chris
     
  29. AvAl

    AvAl
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    Chris,

    Sure. Fine Chris. Just tell me what's best, Chris

    Alex
     

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