REL S/510 Subwoofer Review & Comments

Conrad.

Well-known Member
You can probably add about 3 or 4dB to that figure. So that takes it to -2 at 22Hz. So -3 would be about 21Hz and -6 would be about 18Hz. Still not matching the SVS which we know is an anechoic figure, and is the -3 point.

That assumes a 12dB/Octave slope, which we know is shallow for a ported sub roll off.
 

hestepare

Member
Hats off for the designer writing such detailed reply.
That is indeed a seductive reply, and it really makes me curious to hear their stuff. I'm left with a bunch of questions, though.

He writes,

Whenever you're using DSP to, for example, deliver flatter, lower extension specs, something is being robbed to produce that figure.
What is being robbed? Is it possible to put into words what exactly is there in a non-DSP sub that isn't there in a DSP sub? I'm not sure 'aliveness' or 'fluidity and natural tracking of dynamics' help me understand, although I must admit it's a type of hifi poetry that really appeals to me. I want to love it!

Both T/i and HT have an ability to blend and meld almost seamlessly with the main speakers
In my understanding and experience, this is a question of phase and amplitude coherence at the crossover. Getting this right is integral to any type of multi-speaker setup (multi-driver, even) and can be adjusted either digitally or with analogue devices. I'm guessing that REL aim to keep the group delay very low to make that integration as easy as possible, but that only means that the sub doesn't lag that far behind to begin with.

However, their best filter, the Reference filter, causes "just 4 milliseconds of group delay", which is an order of magnitude more than the B&W DB series subwoofers if you turn their built-in room correction EQ and low-pass off. That said, 4 ms is probably not that audible, so it might be that there's something else that causes this ability to blend seamlessly. Well-behaved low-pass filters, maybe? I don't know.

In sum I think his response is:

- analogue circuits sound better than DSP
- RELs somehow blend well with other speakers
- for realistic sound, a sub needs to be able to play both loud and soft. RELs can do that [this is only inferred from what he wrote – he doesn't really state it]


It can't be that RELs are quick, as they have 4 ms of GD or more. At least that's not an advantage that RELs have compared with other subs. Frequency is the relationship between movement and time (20 Hz is by definition 20 cycles per second), so if it were quicker than that, it would play the wrong notes.

Some of the best bass I've heard has been by fully DSP controlled systems (Kii, Lyngdorf, Steinway Lyngdorf, SVS, B&W), and I don't see that there is any good reason why those systems would be bad at playing softly or dynamically. They could of course have poorly implemented DSPs, but that goes for any technical approach really.

I'm sure they sound good, and that they are mindfully and skillfully put together. But I'm not sure I've grasped what concretely separates them from their competitors.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
What is this DSP to subs, what does it do, what is it? I assume filtering to that specifc driver and cabinet design?
 

hestepare

Member
DSP just means Digital Signal Processing and describes any type of signal processing that happens in the digital domain. Examples are frequency correction (room adaptation/correction or driver adjustment), dynamic EQ (lets the sub play deeper while avoiding overextension), other types of EQ, delay/phase adjustments etc.
 

milano j

Active Member
Suppose subwoofer brands are akin to car brands
SVS -Ford
BK - GM
Rel- Audi or BMW
Arendal - Volvo
etc etc
Am big fan of Rel,l have a T7i and the HT1508...I was considering selling the T7i and getting another HT1508...But after reading this review l will be selling my T7i and auditioning this one
 

rccarguy

Active Member
Suppose subwoofer brands are akin to car brands
SVS -Ford
BK - GM
Rel- Audi or BMW
Arendal - Volvo
etc etc
Am big fan of Rel,l have a T7i and the HT1508...I was considering selling the T7i and getting another HT1508...But after reading this review l will be selling my T7i and auditioning this one

When I got into svs subs they offered far better value for money and bass output than rel . My pc plus outclasses the rel by miles.
Unfortunate now svs prices have crept up to mainstream brands no longer "cut the middle man"

As believe bk make or have made subs for rel and mj acoustics so you're just paying the mj and eel brand name
 

milano j

Active Member
When I got into svs subs they offered far better value for money and bass output than rel . My pc plus outclasses the rel by miles.
Unfortunate now svs prices have crept up to mainstream brands no longer "cut the middle man"

As believe bk make or have made subs for rel and mj acoustics so you're just paying the mj and eel brand name
Like l said it's all about budget and personal taste...l wouldn't give either a BK or a SVS sub house room as they dont appeal to my personal taste....just by their designs it gets 9/10 in its review so that's all l need to know
 

hestepare

Member
That John Hunter is such a good salesman. I still don't get his arguments why RELs are better, but I sure would like a pair of stacks of 510s. Or 25s for that matter :love:
 

John24ssj

Active Member
Well you can't argue about taste as everyone has their own preferences but every time I look at REL S/510 all I see is this:
1592402638501.png

1592402760297.png


Just can't in-vision having something like that in my living room :D
 

drillo

Active Member
Heard the 2x3 stack at Bristol this year and it was stupendous (they played AC/DC thunderstruck at 11 on the volume dial) - hooligan levels of a song I don’t exactly care for but it was shock and awe and up there with my top 3 impressions from the show

But I can’t stand their design either - I really loathe almost all REL designs other than the g25 which is lovely but too big a footprint.

Also curious about those rails - does this mean they can’t be adjusted for an uneven floor like spikes/feet can?
 

John24ssj

Active Member
With some luck the subs are so heavy they'll just sink into the floor, evening themselves
You're wrong, that's an additional £800 add on from REL, the base £1,800 unit does not come with that
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
@John24ssj That still doesn't tell me what Djjfj means.
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
@hestepare Ah, thank you. It is an acronym with which I was not familiar, and I wonder how long it will last. Now that I know what it means, I'm not sure what post #37 adds to the total of mankind's knowledge, but ah well.
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
No, it's not hypocritical at all. The quote in post #37 does include "Write your own review for REL S/510" so anyone else is free to write their own review.
 

milano j

Active Member
Yeah rel are overpriced
In my experience the reason people who think any product is overpriced is because it's out of their budget but then again the only way really to find out is via purchasing that product you think is overpriced...only then can you make a proper judgement
 

Liammonty123

Well-known Member
In my experience the reason people who think any product is overpriced is because it's out of their budget but then again the only way really to find out is via purchasing that product you think is overpriced...only then can you make a proper judgement
I disagree, even if I had the funds, there’s no reason to pay more money for something that doesn’t perform at its price point.

It’s about looking at what’s on offer, and evaluating whether the price is justified. In this case, as we have seen, a similarly performing Bk alternative can be had for 1400 less. It appears in this case you are paying for appearance and badge.
 

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