Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Brox, Jul 15, 2002.
Where's the cheapest place to buy a Rel 150?
i think they are 380 delivered although you have to email/telephone them for that price the website will show the rrp price.
keep debating whether to place an order for the 150 myself
Very overated. Very high distortion at higher levels and very poor value. REL's old Q50 blows the socks of the 150's with ease. In fact IMO REL took two steps backwards with the 150/200 series. If you do a search on the 150 you will find a mine of info to wade through should you desire to do so.
Every UK mag I've read gives it top marks. One of the great mysterys of life which I hope to solve before I pass on.
Uncle Eric - have you demoed a 150?
I want something small and at that size the choice is limited.
I actually used a couple pairs in two installs upon the insistance of my magazine reading customers.
Since that time I've had to take them out and replace them.
Just my opinion but they are a boomy humming mess. Sorry to 150 owners but I'd rather be honest than diplomatic. Although I know that many folks are restricted with space, very small box's rarely cut the mustard in terms of good clean minimul distortion low bass.
My advice is, do more research before you part with your money.
"One of the great mysterys of life which I hope to solve before I pass on"
Maybe there's a very simple explanation... that they are actually quite a good sub for under £400?
That you, begrudgingly, installed some which were then later done away with is not surprising. You'd already sewn the seeds of doubt with which to make that happen.
I'd put money on it that if you install virtually anything against your advice and make that known to the customer, they will be tainted against the product and, psychologically, are less likely to be hearing/seeing it for what it really is.
If you have to have a 150, and Eric and I are in total agreement on their 'abilities', I would also recommend using Tysons. As my local dealer I know these guys well and they are decent fellows I would recommend. Some real good bargains on their web site. One of the biggest Linn dealers around by the way. CEDIA tec.
What about the Velodyne power buy?
Uncle Eric thanks for your comments, although do you stand by your comment that they are a "boomy humming mess" this does seem a bit strong.
Sure i'm willing to admit that they can be bettered but I doubt by something as small and at that price. I have a small room and most subs that are very good do look like big black boxes.
If I had more space or didn't care how my living room looked i'd buy a Rel 100.
Can you be more constructive as i'm a bit stuck.
Possibly. But then again isn't that why people hire me. To recommend and install the best value for money equipment for their environment? Couple of points though. The first customer was going loopy with the constant humming of one and then the other 150 and asked me to replace them within days.
The second customer was the brother in law of another guy whose system I'd completed many months earlier. Around a week later, this guy visted his relation and sat in the room with the pair of REL ST's that I put in there for him. He was on the phone to me at 11pm that night with a heeeelp!!!.
Brox - for the record, and as you may have guessed from my previous post, I have a Rel Q150 which I bought from Peter Tyson.
My experience with the Rel:
I previously had an old Sony sub which had been part of a Sony Pro-Logic kit, around 7 years old. I moved the PL kit to my bedroom, without the sub, and used the sub in my HC with a Sony DB930 amp.
When I upgraded to my Denon 2802 amp I realised that what was lacking was decent bass. I could not justify more than £500 on a sub at the time and so auditioned several, including Kefs, an ex-demo M&K, Tannoy, Rel and Paradigm. My friend had also recently bought a nice new sub from the new kids on the block, Vibe.
I had NO preconceptions about subs as previously my interest had only been quality hi fi and had not needed to introduce a sub to my system.
So, out of all of them I preferred the Q150. I then found it at £380 from Peter Tyson and thought it was a no brainer.
Once it arrived (after truly noteworthy, stellar service from PT) I spent a few days hooking it up and integrating it with Avia into my system.
End result, it sounds great. Massive lows but fast and articulate.
I use it soley for movies and so can't comment on it's musical / 2 channel abilities.
I dare say there are more 'musical' subs around and I dare say it's nowhere near as good as a £700 sub but hey, horses for courses. Also, it DOESN'T hum!
"The first customer was going loopy with the constant humming of one and then the other 150 and asked me to replace them within days."
Sure, as would anyone, the unit was faulty.
"The second customer was the brother in law of another guy whose system I'd completed many months earlier. Around a week later, this guy visted his relation and sat in the room with the pair of REL ST's that I put in there for him. He was on the phone to me at 11pm that night with a heeeelp!!!."
Again, everytime I go round to a friend's house after they've bought a new piece of kit that they 'love' we usually sit down, go through the usual demo sequences, then watch a new DVD, all sit back and go 'Hmm, oh well'.
The person who bought the piece of kit is then p*ssed off for a number of days afterwards.
Uncle Eric, I'm really not having a pop at you or your experiences, just trying to present my (equally true) side of the Rel experience to give Brox a fair overview.
One thing I would ask in return though... have you really never had any other manufacturer's kit other than Rel be a disappointment/return from a customer a few days after install?
In fact some folks (even on this very forum) have bought recommendations from me that they hadn't even demoed thus entirely trusting my judgement. They told me their budget, room size and other relevent facts such as what eqipement the gear will be used with now and in the forseeable future. Hopefully at least one of the gentleman will comment on this subject.
I research, test, listen and work on this subject on a daily basis. I'm not in the business of making mistakes and wrong choices for a given job. My target has always been to find the best eqipment performance wise, per pound spent whether it be budget end or high end. So far so good.
That includes me. Even though everyone always says that you must demo speakers first I must admit that I didn't and relied on Eric's judgement when he recommended M&K Pro speakers for my setup.
I also feel very strongly that most people are not very good at listening to subwoofers on demo as they are not experienced enough to know what to look for. I am willing to bet that there aren't more than a handful of people on this forum who can honestly say that they could handle a proper listening test of a subwoofer and I am certainly not one of that group.
Some of you may know that Eric is a friend of mine but irrespective of that, I don't buy anything without his prior approval and I haven't gone wrong yet.
"So far so good."
That's excellent Eric. Seriously, hat's off to you.
I'm now off to eBay to shunt the Q150. As I'll probably get £400 for it on there, what replacement should I be looking at? I could top that up with another £200 max.
As Ian points out, there's little point me demoing it so you're advice will be much appreciated.
Give me some details about your current set up and what your future aims are.
Thanks, here goes:
Denon 2802 driving Kef Q55.2s, Q95c and Q15.2 (+Q95c) rears with the Rel Q150. Speaker cable is all QED SA bi-wire and single wire for the rears. Ecosse Producer coax interconnect.
My listening room is open, wooded floored but with irregular side walls and rear walls. Fairly heavy material based, 3 seater sofa and a heavy coffee table between that and the fronts.
The room luckily allows for ideal placement of all speakers, other than the rears which at about 4ft away are maybe a little close?
Fronts are all roughly 10ft away.
To be honest I've calibrated the system to within an inch of it's life with Avia/VE and an SPL meter. I may well be wrong (and am happy to admit I'm accustomed to 'my' sound) but to me it sounds clear, dynamic and has the bottom end wallop that I feel more than hear.
Future aims are to upgrade all the speakers to something like the PMC package and upgrade the 2802 to the next version of what is now the 3802.
For now I'm guessing you'll advise changing the Q95s and the Rel... but to what?
As I mentioned, I can do no more than £600 on a sub.
Cheers again for your assistance.
Uncle Eric - We are now aware of your credentials, however since I have need for a small sub can you suggest something better than the Rel for about the same price ?
By the time you take the dealer's margin, the manuafcturers's margin and the logistical costs out your average 500 quid sub is unlikely to contain anything more than a 40-50 quid driver and a 100 quid plate amp housed in a chipboard or MDF (if you are lucky) or similar box.
Perhaps not even that.
I would have little hesitation in making my own - it's not hard, especially if you go for a sealed box design (which many would say is the best compromise anyway).
The only fly in the ointment is if you require a high class finish - few of us here will probably have the necessary cabinet makers skills for a truly high class venner finish I suspect, but it's not cheap to buy a high class subwoofer with such a finish from a dealer either.
Naturally, the US is a good place for drivers, but you can get decent ones here.
Try Wilmslow Audio, IPL, or BK electronics.
The Titanic Mk2 10" driver looks a good candidate for a compact sealed design, but there are others.
It's available from Parts Express for about 100 quid, together with about another 100 quid for a 250W r/c plate amp.
Delivery is extra though!
The AC10SW4 and 200 watt plate amp is another possibility too - around 220 quid all in from BKelec.com (in the UK).
Or the same amp with the BSB10 - around 280 all in.
You can make a very substantial enclosure from an 8x4 sheet of MDF - about 12 quid from B&Q (they'll even cut it up for you, pretty accurately, for a few quid). Add a grille and some feet/spikes etc, and you're done for around 250/310 all in.
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