Question Refresh rate issue

Conrad.

Moderator
I'm currently having an issue with my set-up that I'm interested to resolve.

I use a PC as a source playing back local content using JRiver. The PC has a 2070 Super graphics card in it.
The GPU has two outputs connected
- one to my desktop monitor which has a res of 5120 x 1440 and supports 30Hz and 60Hz.
- one over a 15m HDMI cable to a Marantz AV7702 (using an amazonbasics HDMI cable).

The Marantz is then connected using a 15m fibre cable to the Projector, a JVC HD750.

All my content is 1080p maximum. Anything that's 4k is downscaled by MadVR and sent out as 1080 SDR.

My issue is that I can't get this playback chain to play anything over 24fps. If I connect the PC directly to the PJ I can get 23, 24, 25, 30, 50, 60fps so I know they both support it. When I change the desktop res to 1080p50 I get a message on the JVC that suggests no signal.

When playing content I turn off the monitor and just have the Processor and PJ on. I've tried disconnecting the monitor too, just in case that was causing some weird issue.

Is it my long hdmi cable that's causing the issue? Would a fibre cable solve my issue? Or is there a fundamental problem with the Marantz? I've googled but can't find anything and the manual suggests that it should support 50 and 60Hz.

Any thoughts would be welcomed. It's not a huge issue as we mainly us it for movie watching and they're usually at 23.976 which plays fine. I get a frame drop every so often when there's a mismatch and most of the time it's not noticeable. I just know that it's capable of doing it so I want it to, you know?
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Apologies for the double post. It's not the cable. I took the long HDMI cable from the PC and attached it with a splitter to the fibre cable thereby bypassing the Processor and actually creating a 30m long HDMI cable! 50Hz worked fine.

So now I'm really stumped.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Most AVR's are configured (use silicon) which support a relatively limited range of HDTV signal formats - move outside of that envelope and you are not going to pass more 'esoteric' frame rates and formats.

Split the Output of the Source and send video direct to the Sink (Projector) and Audio to the AVR with a 'dummy' HDTV format video signal to allow the AVR to lock to the signal.

Joe
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Thanks Joe. Would 25 and 50Hz count as esoteric? Given that uk TV is 25fps I would have thought that it would be supported. It could be an incompatibility between the PJ and Processor though I guess.

I did think about splitting the signal. I ran a second cable from the GPU to the PJ and that solves this specific issue but causes issues in other places and makes usability a lot more complicated (The PJ doesn't have a direct-to-specific-input button so you have to cycle through all inputs and it's sllllloooooowwww).

I tried using a cheap HDMI splitter but that didn't work. I'm guessing your recommendation is the vertex, is there anything lower in cost you'd recommend? I'm not too fussed about upgradability as when I finally move to 4K I'll probably change the processor at the same time.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
You could try the HDFury AVR key and yes the AVR may have a relatively narrow set of supported signal formats.

Joe
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Thanks Joe. One final question, would the integral work as well as the vertex for this issue in your opinion?
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If the sound system supports 1080p then Integral2 or Vertex1 will work as an AVR-Key.

The advantage of the AVR-Key compared to Integral2 or Vertex1 is where the sound system does not support 1080p - for those systems the AVR-Key 'audio Out can be set to 1080i or 720p.

The Integral2 or Vertex1 can not pass 4K60 for video and 1080i or 720p for audio - the 'audio' Output is always 1080p when the Input video is 1080p or 2160p.

Joe
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Thanks Joe, very useful.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Before trying anything where cables and other components are a concern, try the free trial of PowerDVD to see if it resolves your refresh issues. I'm just wondering if it is more a thing with JRiver (which I use at home for music and not film)

I've been using PowerDVD since version 14 and JRiver since version 16. I've always kept them separate as I just feel there strengths are in different areas

What graphics card are you using to as this may also be a factor, historically NVidia cards were the ones to use. I know I use an Asus Strix 950 which has stud me well

Regarding the windows operating system, is it home or pro? Not 100% sure if home allows you to the program to run everything as administrator which should also allow the program to take charge of the refresh rates for whatever you are watching. If you haven't set this side up, do a search on YouTube on how to "run a program as an administrator" :)
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Thanks Shane.

I tried MPC-BE as well and that has the same effect. It's not the player as changing the refresh rate in Windows or the NVidia control panel has the same outcome, no input to the PJ. Auto switching highlighted the issue but I'm able to reproduce it independently.

I'll have to check the version but I'm running the insiders version on the dev ring. It could be the nvidia driver so I can roll back to an earlier stable version. As I say though, the player is changing to the correct refresh rate, it's the signal going through the AVR that's the issue. When not going through the AVR auto and manual refresh rate changes work.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Ok, it was just a thought as sometimes its the easy bits that can cause the issues :smashin:

Wonder if its just the handshake then. I'm guessing you switching the source on the AVR the and once it locked on, switch back to see if it forces a change a refresh rate change?
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Wonder if its just the handshake then. I'm guessing you switching the source on the AVR the and once it locked on, switch back to see if it forces a change a refresh rate change?

I think I've tried this but it's worth checking again, I'll test tonight and report back.

It is often the simplest things that we miss, you're right. :)
 

Conrad.

Moderator
Ok, I just tested:

- switching to 50Hz and switching inputs, no difference
- putting an HDMI splitter inline, no difference
- putting an HDCP convertor inline, no difference

Someone is going to lend me a Vertex Integral to test out and if that works I'll buy it.

Thanks for the help
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'Someone is going to lend me a Vertex Integral' - has to be one or the other :)

Joe
 

Conrad.

Moderator
You're right - HD Fury Integral. I get very confused with their product range.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Me too and I stock/supply it :)


Joe
 

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