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Redundancy or transfer question

rongood

Prominent Member
Long story short our depot is closing soon :( no word of redundancy yet but can they get around not paying redundancy by offering a job at the next nearest depot ?

Just wondering if there are any min / max mileages involved before they have to pay out redundancy payments ;)

Thing is i'm a driver and don't want to have to drive to work for up to an hour and half.....do a days driving....then have to drive home :rolleyes: ....gonna be a long day......

ATB

Ron
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
The rule of thumb used to be around 30 miles, but I believe that has been dropped now in place of 'reasonable' distance.

Reasonable distance is open to interpretation and varies depending on your role and renumeration. So it might be fair to ask an exec with a company car who travels a lot anyway to work at a new office 30 miles away but not a secretary on £15K who currently walks to work.

Companies often offer extra money or travel time to cover additional commute if they want you to move or don't want to pay out redundancy.

I think you will just have to wait and see what happens, and consider what the actual circumstances are.

Out of interest aren't there regulations about how many hours you can drive and breaks you must take - does you driving commute get taken into account?

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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rongood

Prominent Member
Driving hours only tot up when on the tacho, so driving the car doesnt count i'm afraid......tell my eyes etc that when you add it all up.

ATB

Ron
 

unique

Moderator
you should call ACAS for advice

there isn't much set in stone here. do you have a mobility clause in your contract, or are you employed to work from a specific location? with no mobility clause it could be considered an unreasonable change to contract

the thing is, if your depot is closing, won't they have enough staff at the other depot, thus they won't need the staff from your depot? they may need a few, but then it's up to those who want to go to apply for the new posts. some may want to leave, some may want to go
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
the thing is, if your depot is closing, won't they have enough staff at the other depot, thus they won't need the staff from your depot? they may need a few, but then it's up to those who want to go to apply for the new posts. some may want to leave, some may want to go

It will depend on the business. My brother in law used to drive for Safeways. When it was taken over by Morrissons, they closed the Safeway depot and moved him to the nearby(ish) Morrissons depot. There was no compulsory redundancy for drivers, though small number took voluntary redundancy - he did.

The fact is, the total number of stores to supply remained the sames so they needed so they still needed all the drivers. The redundancies mostly came from the fixed depot staff and the head office.

Driving hours only tot up when on the tacho, so driving the car doesnt count i'm afraid......tell my eyes etc that when you add it all up.

That's crazy really. Sounds like a 'corporate manslaughter' prosecution waiting to happen.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Pugs1

Prominent Member
I'm in the same boat but we are being TUPE'ed across come April 1st. They have shown their plans and the head office will be in Woking, I work just outside Brighton. That is going to be 110 mile round trip a day up the god damn M23/25. They ARE NOT offering voluntary redundancy and I just can't see how this will work out, plus Woking already has it's own staff. Company seems to be manouvering to put people in an awkward situation.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Pugs1

Obviously, I don't know the nature of your current contractrual arrangement (esp mobility) but on the face of it you have extremely good grounds for redundancy or constructive dismissal (if the company doesn't want to play ball).

If that is what you want then I would set up an initial meeting with a solicitor - let your manager and HR know what you want prior and that you are prepared to take legal representation.

My wife did this a few years back. The company wouldn't budge but on the day that she was due to see the solicitor there was a letter on her desk offering her a 'without prejudice' payment. The payment was equal to the redundancy but they wouldn't call it that.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Pugs1

Prominent Member
No mobility clauses in my contract. I think they will make people redundant but it gets complicated cause it's a TUPE process and all staff just transfer over. However, thats when the fun starts what with Office locations (unreasonable), interviews and whether they have a job role for your position or not.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
TUPE doesn't make any difference to whether you are entitled to redundancy or not.

TUPE is there to protect the employee to ensure that in going through the transfer you don't find that your terms and conditions have been eroded. Note that pensions aren't contractrual, so it is legal for them to move you onto a different scheme that might not be as good as your current one - although pension accrued upto the point of transfer is protected.

interviews and whether they have a job role for your position or not.

That's interesting. I didn't think TUPE permitted non-voluntary redundancy within a certain period but I may be wrong - someone could perhaps comment. With a merger (which is what my wife went through) you certainly have reorganisation and interviews for roles, but TUPE comes in when you are transfer the business (or part of the business) to another company and then the recipient company has to take all the TUPE'd staff.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Pugs1

Prominent Member
Ok thanks. It does get a bit complicated..lol

PS

I live pretty close to Horsham to.
 

w3dal

Distinguished Member
Long story short our depot is closing soon :( no word of redundancy yet but can they get around not paying redundancy by offering a job at the next nearest depot ?

Just wondering if there are any min / max mileages involved before they have to pay out redundancy payments ;)

Thing is i'm a driver and don't want to have to drive to work for up to an hour and half.....do a days driving....then have to drive home :rolleyes: ....gonna be a long day......

ATB

Ron


Dont work for Spicers do you?
 

unique

Moderator
I'm in the same boat but we are being TUPE'ed across come April 1st. They have shown their plans and the head office will be in Woking, I work just outside Brighton. That is going to be 110 mile round trip a day up the god damn M23/25. They ARE NOT offering voluntary redundancy and I just can't see how this will work out, plus Woking already has it's own staff. Company seems to be manouvering to put people in an awkward situation.

you should also speak to ACAS

whilst they aren't offering voluntary redundancy, they may have cases of compulsory redundancy. if you have no mobility clause then good practice is to make your current position redundant, and (if appropriate) offer an alternative position at the new location

they should also consult the staff regarding these changes so you can find out more info and discuss your issues

if they don't follow that good practice and you have no mobility clause in your contract and they wish you to move, you may have grounds for breach of contract, as you consider the employer is making an unreasonable change to your contract

regarding TUPE, there is no six month rule that restricts the new employer from making changes to staff, making them redundant etc. if kraft bought cadburys yesterday, they could potentially make 19 people redundant tomorrow without consultation, 20 to 99 people requires 30 days consultation and 100+ requires 90 days, after the consulation period notice has to be given, but payment can be made in lieu of notice, so a new employer could potentially take on 2000 staff and make 1000 or more redundant in little over 3 months, or make 99 people redundant in little more than a month
 

rongood

Prominent Member
That's crazy really. Sounds like a 'corporate manslaughter' prosecution waiting to happen.

Cheers,

Nigel

Hi Nigel, yeah tell me about it mate.....no job is worth that malarkey.

Think i'll sit tight for the mo and see how it pans out ;)

This has been hanging over our heads for about 3/4 years now but looks to be imminent of late.



Dont work for Spicers do you?

Nah, its a tuppenny halfpenny plant hire company (without going into to much detail :cool:)

Thanks for the replies everyone

ATB
Ron
 

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