Red Digital Cinema - HD delivery options

simond83

Active Member
Hi,

I had a quick search, but couldn't find anything on this. For those of you not aware, the owner of Oakley, Jim Jannard, is a big camera nut. He's decided to build his own digital cinema camera called the Red One which is due out shortly.

www.red.com

The great thing about this camera is that it can record digitally, with pictures better than 35mm. This is really shaking up the movie industry with the likes of Peter Jackson, Steven Soderbergh and Rodney Charters (24) all having used and tested the camera and loving it.

Now you ask, what the hell is this doing in the BD/HD forums?!?!!!

Well, this camera records 4k (2540p = 4520×2540 pixels) @ 60fps!!!!! It also does 2k, 1080i/p (up to 120fps) but what this all means is data. Let's get this out of the way now, i'm a Blu-Ray man. My main reason for this is because of it's potential data storage, the main benefit i feel that future proofs it over HD-DVD.

This camera is being used for major productions now and it's up take is going to be huge (it only cost's $20,000!!!!). With the advantage of faster frame rates and cheaper costs compared to film, the outcome for movies will be better quality, but at a higher data rate.

The idea of posting this was not to put down HD-DVD or big up Blu-Ray, but to present to those of you unaware, a very major development in the movie industry that will greatly affect this epic format battle.

Cheers, Simon:thumbsup:
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
Can anyone help me out this. I understand that both BD & HD DVD store data at 1080p/24fps.

Now 60hz is 2.5 times more frames per second.

Surely, if a disc is required to store 60fps it will only be able to store 40% as much material?

This wouldn't be enough for a feature film, other than a very short one, on either format.

Steve W
 

Rich777

Active Member
brilliant no more judder in pans, but depending on the speed of your wagon wheels they may still appear to go backwards, i think.

Stating it as "better" than 35mm celluloid is a bit weak, it may be better in some respects like a CD is better than vinyl :cool:
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
This 'development' seems to have the same relevance to both Blu ray and HD DVD as far as I can see. It is just another professional tool, and not the only one capable of this. I doubt it will change anything wrt to what is on our HD discs though it might be used by some directors as part of their 'tool kit'.
 

booth1976

Active Member
This won't change anything. And as for it recording 60fps, no one is actually going to be recording at that speed unless they want to record slow motion :D

Film cameras (that is motion picture cameras that record on film) have been able to record 60fps for decades.

As for it being as good as film, the 4k sensor in the camera is supposedly the same resolution as film. Opinion is divided on this, but a lot of top cinematographers have prototype models already and many are treating this as the second coming. It certainly is a very versatile camera and price-wise, indie producers won't be left out with a $17,500 price for the basic camera body. To get a full kit, it costs about $30,000 which is pretty cheap when compared to the massively under-spec'd £60,000 Sony Cinealta HDCam (camera body only).

So the only thing that changes is that low budget films will look better. In the right hands of course.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
I am about to do some >1000fps stuff :smashin:. I am looking forward to that :).
 

Mr.D

Distinguished Member
Its a 12bit linear sensor . Thats not enough to capture more than 8 stops without banding unless you hide it in noise , even then its a push. ( film scans manage the same trick but they use 10bit log encoding which you'd need at leat 16bit linear to represent adequately). Essentially its a high def video camera with pretensions to be a digital film camera.

For the money I'm sure its good value but I doubt its the panacea people claim it is.

They had lots of trouble at Weta getting a filmic dynamic range from it and ended up dealing with the footage as rec709 video.

The Dalsa seems to be the one cinematographers are keeping an eye on.

As for frame rates the RED guys were very vague when I asked about capture rates using 4k. I suspect the camera doesn't do greater than 24fps when capturing 4k, which is a pain as I was looking to use it for miniature and effects elements shoots.
 

digitalsafari

Active Member
The first UK based Red camera has arrived and last week we did the first commercial job.

DoP is Rory Hinds from Mine Fims who is also the owner of the camera (#68)

I was DIT/Data Wrangler for the project.

We shot day/night, interiors/exteriors on tripod and Stedicam.

Image quality is very good and has a DSLR feel.
 

simond83

Active Member
Thanks for the update. What are you storing the rushes on? HDD, HDCAM SR or Optical Media? Do you think Blu-ray or HD-DVD will help or hinder you in anyway?

Simon
 

The latest video from AVForums

Bowers PI7 wireless in-ear headphones review coming soon to AVForums
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom