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Recordable DVD

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by jsavitt, Oct 26, 2002.

  1. jsavitt

    jsavitt
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    I am undecided as to whether to buy the Panasonic or Phillips DVD recorder. It sems to me that both are very good but I wonder whether there is more flexibilty with the Phillips R+ system in playing recorded DVDs on other DVD machines.

    I plan to use the DVD recorder as a traditional video machine and am concerned that recorded DVDs may not play on my other Toshiba DVD player. Presumably, the Panasonic RAM disc will not work in other machines.

    Any comments gratefully received
     
  2. Colger

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    I am also considering either one of these machines - Panasonic E30 or Philips 880.

    It does appear that the Philips might have the edge over the Panasonic from the point of view of compatibility with other DVD players but one of my concerns is the cost of the media - I am finding it difficult to get the costs involved. I understand the DVD-RAM is around £15 - can someone advise please. I have read that there can be problems with 'cheap' media and any advise would be appreciated.
     
  3. dazzer123

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    Hi i have a DVDR 980 WHICH IS +RW AND +R i was an early adopter of this format and can tell you that in my opinion it is great.

    If you go the plus r route look to buy your media online, it has been very expensive but prices are now coming down like a lead ballon 10 +R's for £12.50 and +rw's from £3.50 at www.cdevolutions.co.uk.

    R is a little cheaper i have both but feel +R is a much better format good luck.
     
  4. malcom

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    I belong to the opposite camp that believes the Panasonic format better than the Philips. The DVD-R discs are cheap at the moment and "yes" some cheap media will fail. I think when DVD+ media becomes "cheap" there will probably be the same problem.

    The Panny format machine behaves a bit like tivo in the sense you can record and play back both at the same time. The philips format cannot.

    Editing on RAM is much more sophisticated than the + format and with RAM when you delete an item the disc space is recovered. With the Philips format it is not. DVD-R discs after a 4 minute finalization process converts to a DVD that can be played on most DVD recorders as does the +R format.

    When it comes to copying your VHS tapes to DVD then the Panny machines are second to none. The results are excellent. Reading the +R/RW forum many people complain of having "No signal" when the VHS tape quality is low. That never happens with the RAM/-R format machines.

    As you can see I am biased. I considered the +RW format for many months. I am oh so glad I didn't go down that road.
     
  5. gizlaroc

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    i have to say that if i bought one it would be the panny, my mate has one and he buys all his -R media for about 50p each.

    he has only had 2 discs that would not write, but he may be lucky with his machine.

    If you know you are going to watch once then write again, say recording eastenders, you can them use dvdram, if you are taping somthing you want to keep use the cheaper -R disc.

    the only other choice is wait and see what sony come up with, they have just released specs on a ide writer that handles all writeable formats, and it wouldn't surprise me if they realeased a set top recorder like this too.

    the ide writer is £300 too which sounds pretty good.
     
  6. mentsugi

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    I too am a Panny convert. I weighed up all options between +RW and -RAM and concluded that the advantage of time slipping programs and better editing features as well as cheap -R media made this the best bet and I havnt been dissappointed.
    After 1 months use I am still like a kid with a new toy whereas my new widescreen TV and (when I bought my latest one) VCR faded much faster into everyday usage.
    With regards to DVD-RAM media yes it is expensive compared to DVD+RW (£8.99 from Unbeatable for Panny one ) but as you utilise the space much more efficiently on the DVD-RAM if you only want to watch once then you can easily get by with two or three DVD-RAM's (2 come free with DVD recorder). If you want to keep a recording then writing to the DVD-R is the better option.
    The only downside I can see (but doesnt matter to me) is the lack of other DVD players for the DVD-RAM format disk. Me, I just write once to a cheap DVD-R and all the people I have then leant the recording to have so far been able to see the finished result.
     
  7. Pablo

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    I actually bought a Philips 880 from Empire and eagerly connected it to the RGB out of the TiVo and then to the projector...

    I was very dissapointed with the result; there was a marked softening of the picture - even on the highest bit rate - which gives only an hour per disc.

    Empire, (after taking my Visa details!!) allowed me to borrow a Panny E30 to compare the two side-by-side. I found the Panny to give far superior results on both the XP (1 hour) and SP (2 hour) settings.

    I've not yet tried the RAM media as my main use is achiving the TiVo stuff. I find the cheap write one media just fine for this.

    Hope this helps.

    Paul.
     
  8. Colger

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    Guys,

    Thanks very much for the comments - I have checked out the Philips instore to ascertain whether it plays VCD disks as I am starting to create disks with slideshows from dig. camera pics. The philips plays these so I must now try the Panasonic E30 with these disks and if the Panasonic can play these disks it would appear that the E30 might be the best choice.

    Incidentally, I have a Panasonic RV60 which according to the manual should play vcd disks but mine does not. It could be that the Region free conversion has affected this facility. If anyone has any ideas on vcd's they would be appreciated but I dont want to detract from the original thread.
     
  9. rob n

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    pricbuster.org.uk are selling JVC 4.7GB DVD-RAM discs for £5.99ea and Maxell 9.4GB RAM discs for £14.95ea
     
  10. mentsugi

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    I looked at Pricebuster but isnt their shipping cost £6.25 which sort of makes it more expensive or have I read that wrong?
     
  11. dazzer123

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    Hi glad you are all happy with your pannys but when i bought my philips machine one thing that concerned me was which format would win the dvd recordable war, philips were slow to start off but now with there new models they are gaining significant market share, this subject is still open for debate but i would hate to end up with a betamax at the end of the day i suppose if you have a machine that does what you want we should all be happy.

    Here is an intresting story from Nec though who originally supported DVDR opposed to DVD+R.

    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2123994,00.html

    Quote:

    "I think it will ultimately be (DVD+R/+RW) that will win, unless (DVD-R/-RW) comes up with significant benefits, so having 4x DVD+R is important to us," said Andrew Wyllie, head of NEC's UK data storage division. "But at the beginning of this year, it looked like DVD-R/-RW would win."
     
  12. mentsugi

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    Regarding the Betamax vs VHS concern about the DVD format wars it is different this time as in the Betamax case you ended up not being able to rent movies as they all became only in VHS format and you couldnt lend tapes to friends.
    With all the current DVD burners they can all still play DVD Video's so there isnt such a problem.
    The only concern is what players can use the said DVD-RAM, DVD+RW etc. As I have said before this is not a problem with the Panny ultimately as you can still burn DVD-R's which are usable in many machines.
    The biggest problem for DVD burners may well be the Blu-ray recorders which I dont believe will be compatible for DVD video?
    For example, if DVD-RAM died tomorrow I can still record (with my DVD RAM disks each 10,000 times) I will still be able to watch DVD Videos and still be able to burn cheap DVD-R's for friends so the Panny machine will not suddenly become useless for me.
    Actually there is one drawback I have found in that you cannot easily region hack the Panny wheras the Philips seems to be easy to hack?
     
  13. malcom

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    Colger. According to the manual the E30 plays VCD discs...

    Another item that the Panny has and the +format doesn't is the option of seamless playback. Eliminates those "freeze frames" at the edit points when playing back.
     
  14. mentsugi

    mentsugi
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    Just noted another advantage of the Panny over the Philips although cannot confirm this as it comes from another posting from a Philips DVD+RW owner.
    It appears that with the new Philips machines you cannot mix recording speeds on 1 DVD+RW disk. If you record 1 program in SP then they all must be?
    With the Panny this is definately not the case as you can have not just all the 4 standard modes (XP,SP,LP and EP) on one DVD-RAM disk but can also use the VBR mode to fill the remaining space with a program at the best bit rate to fit the space.
     
  15. dazzer123

    dazzer123
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    Just to set the record straight you can mix up recording speeds as much as you want on dvd+rw and +r, maybe some confusion here what you cant mix up is pal and ntsc recordings on a disc if you record ntsc to a disc then you can not record pal on the same disc.

    Unless of course you erase a disc and then you can put what ever you like on it.
     
  16. Colger

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    Guys, all your comments are most appreciated. I can confirm that both machines play vcd disks as I have, today, taken some disks into a local Panasonic shop and they played although they appeared 'jerky' in slideshow mode compared with the smoothness of the philips machine.
    I am still undecided, putting the formats aside, the Philips has co-ax digital sound, panasonic has optical and neither has both. Philips can be modified for multi region but if I keep my existing Panasonic DVD Player this is not important. Philips is cheaper but not by much. Oh dear decisions, decisions.
    Like I said, thanks for all the comments
     
  17. dazzer123

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    Hi hope your happy with what you ultimatley choose as i said earlier i think both platforms are good but if u do decide philips here is something to seriously consider, forget the 880 and 890 models and get a 980 from http://www.tesco.com/electrical/
    with the current available upgrade from philips this machine will record sp+ and ep+ play mp3 has both coax and optical out and has a cart load more inputs and outputs all for £399 grab this bargain while you can.
     
  18. mentsugi

    mentsugi
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    Actually I may also have another drawback to the Panny against the Philips. I m hoping a Philips DVD recorder owner can supply data on this?
    When putting in a DVD-RAM, DVD-R or switching the unit on with a disk inside it takes up to 20 seconds for the E30 to check the disk data, burn rate require etc. This can be a pain if you want to do a lot of messing with different disks?

    Anybody know the setup time for a disk in the Philips?

    (Not talking about the finalising time which is about 4 minutes for a DVD-R)

    **** Edited to show more accurate time (measured by me) ....still twice that of the Philips**********
     
  19. dazzer123

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    As you refer to it well i just put a +rw in my recorder and it took around nine second's to be in a state of readiness for playback or record the disc had a good amount of data on it.

    DVD+RW do not need finalizing +r do and take exactly one minute hope this help's.
     
  20. Bruce

    Bruce
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    I had the same decision to make about a month ago.

    Despite Powerhouse's best attempt to ruin any sale I opted for the Panasonic. On looks it wins hands down and it's slimline case ideally fits the cabinet in which it is installed. I understand recording media is far more available, and at a better price, than that for the Phillips machine.

    Without owning both machines it is difficult to opine on which is the better. For me, the flexible recording and timeslip functions are powerful arguments for the Panasonic.

    True, dvd-ram disks don't seem to be too compatible with other dvd players but I use these for one-off tv recordings which I watch and then discard, re-writing the disk. Dvd-r disks are ideal for archiving and, when finalised, seem compatible with most players. I am happy with my choice of the Panasonic but whatever your final choice I suggest you avoid the cheap media route. It can let you down badly at crucial times. I woud recommend branded disks from SVP communications and their service is superb.
     
  21. calscot

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    I too have been agonizing for weeks about choosing between the Philips and Panny. I was all set to buy the E30 due to it having a progressive scan output until I found out that that was only on the American model. :confused:

    So I opted for the 880 due to being multiregion, plays MP3's, more compatible, cheaper rw media, it has better technical test results (for video jitter, signal to noise ratio etc) but mainly because they are being sold at Richers Sounds. They do a price beat and since it was for sale on RGB direct for £373, I got it for £363 from a high street store compared to £398 for the Panny on the net.

    I then bumped up the price again by taking their 5 year extended warranty for 60 quid which gives me peace of mind in case it goes wrong and if it doesn't I get my money back at the end of the 5 years! This swung it for me. If Richers stocked the Panny, I'd probably have gone for that one.

    It was a lot of hassle trying to get it at that price as I had to argue for ages with the manager about the interpretation of their price beat policy. But it was worth it in the end to save the money.

    I must admit I didn't know that deleted parts of the disc could not be recovered - I thought that was DVD-RAM. I'm really disappointed with that. I thought it would work more like Mini Disc.

    And I really would love to have the chasing playback and recording and playback at the same time as well as the FR mode.

    Just bought it yesterday so haven't used it much but must say that the SP mode looks almost indistinguishable to watching telly live and EP mode is like watching the best VCR with best tape ever. CD music also sounds pretty much as good as my 10 year old Philips CD player, picking up all the subtleties, especially compared to the Sony 305 DVD player I used to have which was poor in this respect.

    Cheers,
    Calscot
     
  22. mij

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    Can anyone confirm if these machines record a 16:9 broadcast as a 16:9 image or convert it to 4:3.

    cheers
    mij
     
  23. Colger

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    Thanks to all those who have made comments on this thread.

    I have at last decided to take the Philips route - the timeslip function was not important to me so that made it a little easier and I would prefer the coaxial dig. output as I dont see the point of it being converted to optical and then converted back again.
    On paper, the test results for the Philips are slightly better than the Panasonic and the jitter I saw on the Panasonic with one of my discs was a little disturbing. I have also decided to get one that has been modified for multi-region so in the event of my exisitng DVD unit failing I am not without a multi region player.

    Thanks a lot once again for the interest many have shown and I am sure the fact that there is not a lot to choose between the Panasonic and the Philips, whichever machine anyone chooses they will be satisfied with the end result.

    I hope the originator of this thread has been able to make a decision.
     
  24. rob n

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    mij,the Panasonic machines will record a 16:9 picture and play it back as a 16:9 picture
     
  25. michaelab

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    So will the Philips machines (record and play 16:9 properly).

    I have a Philips 890 and I'm extremely happy with it. I use it as my main TV tuner now and it's miles better than my Sony 24" Trinitron. The Sony couldn't tune some of my cable channels at all (or only in b/w) but the Philips gets them perfectly.

    The picture quality is also outstanding - despite the fact that the picture goes through the A/D->D/A conversion even when in tuner mode IMO the picture is better than plugging the cable straight into the TV. btw, a useful tip to remember is that whatever recording mode you happen to be in HQ, SP etc affects the quality not just of your recordings but also of the output in tuner mode.

    Michael.
     
  26. kenfowler3966

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    How well do these recorders do recording from another dvd player?
    ie if you want to archive a recording that you have made on a rewritable disc can you play that back on a separate dvd player and record straight to the write once media?

    My tosh 210 is multiregion and macrovision disabled, would that allow proprietary dvd's to be copied or is there some sort of write protection built in to the recorder to recognise this senario? Not that I would do this of course!

    Which are best for archiving dv camcorder recordings? I would like to record the whole 1 hour tape in one go, does it become indexed in any way, or is it treated as one chapter?
     
  27. malcom

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    Hi kenfowler3966. Concerning your first question! Using a DVD player to copy your DVD-R discs back to a DVD-R disc on the Panny works just fine with excellent copies. I have used the Pioneer 444 DVD-Player and copied to the E20 until now when I have been greedy enough to get myself an E30 as well. Recording in XP onto RAM and then editing out what you don't need and re-recording in SP back a DVD-R disc. Results are excellent. I understand both the E20 and the E30 are both copy protected.
     
  28. wellsi

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    Actually, the Panny records a 16:9 picture as an anamorphically compressed 4:3 picture, relying on the TV to re-expand it out.
    Thus, when playing back a wide screen dvd-r on my PC, the properties display it as a 4:3 picture and tries to force me to watch it squashed up as a 4:3 picture. Which ain't good.
     
  29. DaveP

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    I tried this as an experiment, I got a message saying something like: "Cannot record from copy protected source" or somesuch!

    All DVD-R recordings are broken down into 5 minute chunks. You cannot access a menu showing them but you can skip to the next.

    DaveP
     

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