Recommendations wanted: large standmount speaker that's okay near walls.

FootHealer

Active Member
Hi folks,

I'm wondering if there are any larger stand mount speakers that don't mind being too close to walls? By large I mean 6.5-8 inch drivers. I realise the laws of acoustics make it difficult to have big bass near a wall without issues, but I am wondering which speakers are MORE suitable for a 15cm distance from the back wall. I considered the Q Acoustics 3030i, the Wharfedale 12.2 and the ELAC Debut Reference 62, but from reviews it seems none of these would work. Or perhaps they will? Another option may be the ELAC Debut B6.2.

I am currently using the QA Concept 20s, which are amazing in every possible way, and equally fabulous even when placed close to the wall. My only issues is that they are seriously lacking in bass extension (only go down to 65Hz and no bass is audible at 60Hz or below) and I'm contemplating if I should use them with the NAD D3020v2 as a office PC setup and find a larger speakers for the NAD D3045. I did contemplate pairing a subwoofer with the Concept 20s, but after soberly considering my elderly neighbours, whose room is only a thin layer of brick away, I think I will have to pass on this for my upstairs system.

So, I'm wondering if anyone could make a suggestion? I realise I may be forced to stuff the ports (if they are rear ported), and am hoping to find something that still sounds decent if I need to do this.

One last thing...I sort of already have an answer, as the Monitor Bronze 2s I used to own were fine at around 15cm from the back wall. I may get these again, but am open to other options as I found these a little harsh in the upper registers.

Many thanks in advance for your advice...
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Hi folks,

I'm wondering if there are any larger stand mount speakers that don't mind being too close to walls? By large I mean 6.5-8 inch drivers. I realise the laws of acoustics make it difficult to have big bass near a wall without issues, but I am wondering which speakers are MORE suitable for a 15cm distance from the back wall. I considered the Q Acoustics 3030i, the Wharfedale 12.2 and the ELAC Debut Reference 62, but from reviews it seems none of these would work. Or perhaps they will? Another option may be the ELAC Debut B6.2.

I am currently using the QA Concept 20s, which are amazing in every possible way, and equally fabulous even when placed close to the wall. My only issues is that they are seriously lacking in bass extension (only go down to 65Hz and no bass is audible at 60Hz or below) and I'm contemplating if I should use them with the NAD D3020v2 as a office PC setup and find a larger speakers for the NAD D3045. I did contemplate pairing a subwoofer with the Concept 20s, but after soberly considering my elderly neighbours, whose room is only a thin layer of brick away, I think I will have to pass on this for my upstairs system.

So, I'm wondering if anyone could make a suggestion? I realise I may be forced to stuff the ports (if they are rear ported), and am hoping to find something that still sounds decent if I need to do this.

One last thing...I sort of already have an answer, as the Monitor Bronze 2s I used to own were fine at around 15cm from the back wall. I may get these again, but am open to other options as I found these a little harsh in the upper registers.

Many thanks in advance for your advice...
The one that stands out to me immediately is the Focal Chora range.. from the £500 806's. Good for rooms up to 20m2. Comes with a 6.5" mid bass (16.5cm) .. The 806's can suffer from a hard treble so partnering them correctly is vital
406651_7250.jpg



to the £750 (on offer from £900) 906's ... good for rooms from 15m2 to about 30m2.. again 6.5" / 16.5cm mid bass. The 906's fixed the treble issues on the 806 to a point of almost being dull with some amps... but these need a good 30mins or so quiet music before cranking to warm them up to get the bass drivers loosened up
314879_v2_e30a.jpg



Focals have usually been good close to a wall.. they are very much in need of a demo though.. some people find them too polite, others love them

These are BIG Heavy speakers... but so worth it if they sound right on the demo for you.

Would i have a 906 on my roksan with what i listen too.. if i had the room .. yes.. i dont atm so i have my dynaudios.. do i rate the 906 higher than my dm2/6's? low volume .. oh yes.. higher volume.. nope.. my dm2/6's outshine them for me.
Would i have a 806 on my roksan.. no.. it is not the right amp for them tonally. Not saying the 806 is bad.. just in my case.. i could not run them on my setup

Just as an edit... thought ... if you like your current speakers... why not keep them and add a BK sub tucked away in a different part of your room :) cheap, has the lower end and would compliment your speakers well. BK's are very easily adjusted and dialled in right .. you wouldnt get much bass transfer..it's only when they are set wrong you run into the issues with subs... so dont be put off the idea of a sub.. you simply have to dial it in correctly..crossover, phase and volume
 

FootHealer

Active Member
The one that stands out to me immediately is the Focal Chora range.. from the £500 806's. Good for rooms up to 20m2. Comes with a 6.5" mid bass (16.5cm) .. The 806's can suffer from a hard treble so partnering them correctly is vital
406651_7250.jpg



to the £750 (on offer from £900) 906's ... good for rooms from 15m2 to about 30m2.. again 6.5" / 16.5cm mid bass. The 906's fixed the treble issues on the 806 to a point of almost being dull with some amps... but these need a good 30mins or so quiet music before cranking to warm them up to get the bass drivers loosened up
314879_v2_e30a.jpg



Focals have usually been good close to a wall.. they are very much in need of a demo though.. some people find them too polite, others love them

These are BIG Heavy speakers... but so worth it if they sound right on the demo for you.

Would i have a 906 on my roksan with what i listen too.. if i had the room .. yes.. i dont atm so i have my dynaudios.. do i rate the 906 higher than my dm2/6's? low volume .. oh yes.. higher volume.. nope.. my dm2/6's outshine them for me.
Would i have a 806 on my roksan.. no.. it is not the right amp for them tonally. Not saying the 806 is bad.. just in my case.. i could not run them on my setup

Just as an edit... thought ... if you like your current speakers... why not keep them and add a BK sub tucked away in a different part of your room :) cheap, has the lower end and would compliment your speakers well. BK's are very easily adjusted and dialled in right .. you wouldnt get much bass transfer..it's only when they are set wrong you run into the issues with subs... so dont be put off the idea of a sub.. you simply have to dial it in correctly..crossover, phase and volume
Hi,

Thanks for the recommendations and advice.

Do you think the 806s will partner well with an NAD amp? Luckily, its the size of a medical textbook, so I can take it to a dealer to try it out. May be best, as you say.

I haven't totally given up on the idea of a BK sub, probably a Gemini II, as I absolutely love the Concept 20s. For me, they are perfect in every possible way, other than the bass extension...and they are not the prettiest things. I am a bit concerned about ticking off my elderly neighbours though. I might give it a try, but would like to consider my other options first. I am happy with bass extension down into the 40-50Hz range.

Thanks again for the advice...will check out those Focal 806s :)
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Hi,

Thanks for the recommendations and advice.

Do you think the 806s will partner well with an NAD amp? Luckily, its the size of a medical textbook, so I can take it to a dealer to try it out. May be best, as you say.

I haven't totally given up on the idea of a BK sub, probably a Gemini II, as I absolutely love the Concept 20s. For me, they are perfect in every possible way, other than the bass extension...and they are not the prettiest things. I am a bit concerned about ticking off my elderly neighbours though. I might give it a try, but would like to consider my other options first. I am happy with bass extension down into the 40-50Hz range.

Thanks again for the advice...will check out those Focal 806s :)
Re subs... you should never EVER be able to "hear" them... that is the key.. you set the crossover slightly hi/low to the speaker depending on preference.. set your music to listening volume. then slowly up the sub volume until you "begin" to hear the bottom end... tweak the crossover, then gently ease off the sub volume until you are just left with the extended bottom without hearing the sub. Thats generally the way to set them.

Re the Nad.. should be ok.... The 806's and the 906 have been used with the C316 and the 3045 in the past.. they need around 40w minimal power

I would seriously recommend a demo down at a sevenoaks or richer sounds WITH .. your nad amp to check them out. I would not blind buy them.

Also like i say .. these are huge speakers!
806's
Dimensions WxHxD (mm)
210 x 431 x 270
7.4kg each!

906's
Dimensions WxHxD (mm)
225 x 390 x 280
8.5kg each!
 

moujik

Member
Just a note on stuffing bass ports.. You might not like the sound balance even though the bass decreases, so I wouldn't count on it as an option.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Just a note on stuffing bass ports.. You might not like the sound balance even though the bass decreases, so I wouldn't count on it as an option.
Thanks for the reminder. My experience of stuffing ports has been 100% unsatisfactory. I hope to avoid this...
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Re subs... you should never EVER be able to "hear" them... that is the key.. you set the crossover slightly hi/low to the speaker depending on preference.. set your music to listening volume. then slowly up the sub volume until you "begin" to hear the bottom end... tweak the crossover, then gently ease off the sub volume until you are just left with the extended bottom without hearing the sub. Thats generally the way to set them.

Re the Nad.. should be ok.... The 806's and the 906 have been used with the C316 and the 3045 in the past.. they need around 40w minimal power

I would seriously recommend a demo down at a sevenoaks or richer sounds WITH .. your nad amp to check them out. I would not blind buy them.

Also like i say .. these are huge speakers!
806's
Dimensions WxHxD (mm)
210 x 431 x 270
7.4kg each!

906's
Dimensions WxHxD (mm)
225 x 390 x 280
8.5kg each!
I'll definitely be taking my amp and laptop with me if I demo these. Setting up a subwoofer has been frustrating for me in the past, but thankfully the amp has a high pass filter, which takes some of the difficulty out of the process. I'll give it some thought. Am just concerned about complaints from next door. I guess I could always turn the subwoofer volume down. Its a small room, so I don't think the location of the sub would make much difference. I'll see how it goes...
 

FootHealer

Active Member
So, I decided to try my QA Concept 20s in the rather poor position of my office desk. The left speaker is basically right in the corner, 7cm from the back wall and 10cm from the side wall. I put an acoustic panel on the side to reduce the reflections. To my surprise, there was hardly any bass boom. My active speakers go down to 60Hz, like the Concept 20s, but boom badly in the same position. Same goes for the Oberon 1s and MA Bronze 1s. This leaves me wondering...how much of the issues we have with bass boom and walls is due to cabinet resonance? Usually, I would blame the rear ports, but the Concept 20s are rear ported and seem to have no trouble in awkward spots. Even the imaging is okay, but not as good as when used with more space to breathe.


EDIT: the speaker is toed in significantly, and is 7cm from the back wall at the shortest, and about 12cm at the further end; its 10cm from the side wall at the closest end and about 20cm or so from the furthest edge.
 
Last edited:

gava

Active Member
Not sure what sort of price you are thinking of, but theoretically it doesn't matter too much where you put a downward ported speaker.

For example.

 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Not sure what sort of price you are thinking of, but theoretically it doesn't matter too much where you put a downward ported speaker.

For example.

The Fyne is a very nice speaker. The treble is very excitable too and has to be partnered carefully with sources.. The Nad should be ok... but this is very much a demo to decide
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Not sure what sort of price you are thinking of, but theoretically it doesn't matter too much where you put a downward ported speaker.

For example.

Thanks for the recommendation. I've never considered Fyne Audio as most reviews say they can be a bit harsh in the treble. I'm also not sure how well a 30w amp would drive them. They certainly aren't outside my budget, but a demo is probably best before purchasing. I'll look into that one. Thanks again...
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Thanks for the recommendation. I've never considered Fyne Audio as most reviews say they can be a bit harsh in the treble. I'm also not sure how well a 30w amp would drive them. They certainly aren't outside my budget, but a demo is probably best before purchasing. I'll look into that one. Thanks again...
The Nad range have usually been pretty good with their power and current reserves throughout their range so on that front i am not too concerned. At low volume you should be fine.. but you are right at the lowest end on Fyne's recommendation with that 30w ... Realistically with the F500 i would suspect they would be more for the 40-45w min just for that headroom for dynamics. Saying that ... the Nad does have soft clipping (or used too.....) which means they could be pushed a little bit further than other amps of the same power without distortion setting in..
The only concern for me really is the Fyne's sound with that treble on your Nad

Edit... Just as an F.Y.I ... The Fynes are sold partnered with the Cambridge Audio AXA25 out of interest which is a 25W amp with a half decent power delivery ...
 

Hixs

Distinguished Member
I'd recommend Focal, but I am bias...

Reason for the additional weight over closest rivals is the cabinet is double thickness.

My 726 are 21kg, rivals are all in the 11-15kg range.

They fixed the massive ohm drop with the new 8 series as well which means a lower class amp is usable. Wouldn't go cheap too cheap though. 500+ range is good.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
I'd recommend Focal, but I am bias...

Reason for the additional weight over closest rivals is the cabinet is double thickness.

My 726 are 21kg, rivals are all in the 11-15kg range.

They fixed the massive ohm drop with the new 8 series as well which means a lower class amp is usable. Wouldn't go cheap too cheap though. 500+ range is good.
Heya @Hixs ! good to see you about on the forum again.. not seen you about for a while. Thanks for the +1 on my Focal recommendation although i went for the 906 over the 8's on their sound presentation
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Thanks, guys. I feel these speakers may be a little out of my amps power range. Its rated at 30w continous with 60w max into 8ohm, and seems more or less correct in this case. I reckon they really need some very easy to drive speakers. The larger NAD D3045 in my other system would be fine, but its a bit big for the desktop.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Thanks, guys. I feel these speakers may be a little out of my amps power range. Its rated at 30w continous with 60w max into 8ohm, and seems more or less correct in this case. I reckon they really need some very easy to drive speakers. The larger NAD D3045 in my other system would be fine, but its a bit big for the desktop.
The Focal 906 needs a 25w amp min and its a reasonable 89.6db sensitivity. 8ohm
The Fyne 500 needs a 30w amp min and a 89db sensitivity. 8ohm
Your QA Concept 20's need a 25W amp min and are 88db sensitive.. but are 6ohm

All three speakers mentioned so far meet the min 30w of your nad which like i say has a good power supply and possibly soft clipping circuit still so it can run higher power without the distortion or overvolt

Of the 3.. the focal would be the loudest at the same volume when compared to the others due to that higher sensitivity.

Where these speakers come into their own though is with much higher powered amps.. that 906 on my Roksan is just amazing but we are talking a £1500 or so amp that runs 120w into 8ohm

All 3 are fine for your nad, provided they work for your ears :)

Given you had good results with your QA20's with an acoustic panel behind it.. this could be the way to go.. stay with them, put some panels behind them and just add a BK sub and get it dialled in correctly and save money :)
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
@FootHealer I dont know if you saw the edit i made before you thanked my post.. but please do re-look at my last comment
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Okay, then. I'll look into these options :) Thanks. Will more likely go for the Focals, but will have a listen before I decide...I'll take the NAD to the showroom. It's so small it fits inside my wife's handbag ;)
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I suppose some of Tannoy sound philosophy is more less the same approach Fyne has. Same engineering team who started Fyne a few years ago,

Not listed to Fyne myself, but if they sound anything like Tannoy, then I well skip them.

Had pair of Tannoy speakers before. The midrange is flat, it’s like the treble, bass is adjust from 12 a clock to 5 a clock. Voices sound artificial. Bass is precise but there’s no warmth at all. The titanium tweeter hurts my ears.

If Fyne sounds more less the same, then they are brighter then Monitor Audio.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
I suppose some of Tannoy sound philosophy is more less the same approach Fyne has. Same engineering team who started Fyne a few years ago,

Not listed to Fyne myself, but if they sound anything like Tannoy, then I well skip them.

Had pair of Tannoy speakers before. The midrange is flat, it’s like the treble, bass is adjust from 12 a clock to 5 a clock. Voices sound artificial. Bass is precise but there’s no warmth at all. The titanium tweeter hurts my ears.

If Fyne sounds more less the same, then they are brighter then Monitor Audio.
Gosh...well, I'll have a listen and see if this is true. If it is, then it's shocking, unless you like that sort of sound. Personally, I prefer a more neutral, smoother sound with a satisfying midrange, like the QA Concepts give me with the NAD and Rotel amps. You description sounds awful...definitely not what I'm after. I'll try listen for myself...
 

Hixs

Distinguished Member
Heya @Hixs ! good to see you about on the forum again.. not seen you about for a while. Thanks for the +1 on my Focal recommendation although i went for the 906 over the 8's on their sound presentation
Hello hello. Usually to be found in GC these days. Only so many times you can answer the same questions!

9s are the better speaker, so don't blame you. Nearly pulled the trigger on a pair of the 926 for 1200 not so long back...but decided against it. My 7s aren't really worth much these days. Would hate to have to let them go for chump change.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
@FootHealer I dont know if you saw the edit i made before you thanked my post.. but please do re-look at my last comment
Ah, no...I didn't see the edit. Thanks for pointing that out. I actually want to keep the Concept 20s in my other system. I could buy a second pair, but I'd miss out on the all fun of exploring other options ;) Warranted, the better option would be to use a subwoofer with a smaller pair of bookshelves. I'm seriously considering that now. May use a pair of QA 3020s that I have along with a BK Gemini 2. Might work nicely. The 3020 doesn't have much in the way of bass (maybe around 63Hz last time I checked), and the NAD tames the speaker nicely. Would be easy to cross the sub with a speaker at this range. Something to consider. Failing that, I may use the Concept 20s after all and upgrade the speakers on the other system.
 

gava

Active Member
Another speaker occurred to me - large floorstander, quite smooth so might go well with your sharp room.

 

FootHealer

Active Member
Another speaker occurred to me - large floorstander, quite smooth so might go well with your sharp room.

Thanks. I actually considered buying these when they were released. Sadly, they are apparently super fussy about placement, so I decided to give them a miss. Sad, because they look and sound amazing when set up correctly. Apparently it is just tricky to get to that point. With all the issues in this office space of mine, I reckon they may sound awful.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Gosh...well, I'll have a listen and see if this is true. If it is, then it's shocking, unless you like that sort of sound. Personally, I prefer a more neutral, smoother sound with a satisfying midrange, like the QA Concepts give me with the NAD and Rotel amps. You description sounds awful...definitely not what I'm after. I'll try listen for myself...
Yes, it’s my impression of the Tannoy sound You might like the sound. If Fyne is the same I don’t know. Speaking of Tannoy, the famous 60’s speakers are amongst many audiophiles the best speakers ever made.

Modern Tannoy has to sterile sound. It’s very flat. Vocals sound shut in. Tweeter is simply to bright. Bass, dynamics are quite good. Though the bass could be fuller sounding.

I’d check and see if Tannoy or Fyne are designed with titanium tweeter. If so it’s bright sounding. Titanium tweeter can go very high in frequency.
 

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