Question Recommend me a 75"+ TV to replace a 60" plasma

nigelbb

Distinguished Member
I have a 60" LG 60PX990 plasma that I bought 8 years ago for £1700. It's still going strong & still has a smashing image. Back then most of my friends & relatives thought that I was mad buying such a large TV but finally it seems the world has caught up with me & now 75-85" TVs are available at affordable prices.

My partner & I sit on the settee directly in front of the TV which is about 3m away. We rarely have anyone else round watching the TV so wide viewing angles are not a requirement.

We watch HD content via an Apple TV 4K mostly using Plex to access content I have "cough" obtained but also some Bu-ray. We don't watch any TV live as there is no satellite dish or TV aerial on the house. We do occasionally use BBC iPlayer & other catchup services all via the Apple TV.

I do not play console or PC games so this is not a consideration when purchasing.

I currently put all inputs through an Onkyo TX-SR608 receiver then to four Roth floor standers plus Wharfedale centre speaker & JBL sub-woofer. I could keep the speakers & replace the receiver on the other hand I'm no great audiophile so if a soundbar & wireless satellites will give me good enough sound I might swap.

My existing TV does 3D as all the high end TVs did at the time. I found it an irritating headache inducing gimmick & am glad that it has been quietly forgotten (along with curved screens it appears). Am I going to find HDR a similar gimmick? I've seen big screens in Currys & John Lewis & not known whether the demo images are HDR or not. To be honest it doesn't appear that there is all that much HDR content even on Amazon & Netflix. I get the benefits of 4K (again not all that much content) but is an 8K screen worthwhile? I am quite a keen photographer & while running slideshows on the 60" HD plasma is impressive there would be far more detail in 4K so 8K could be even better & worthwhile.

I want to buy a TV with the balance of largest screen & value for money that will give me image quality at least on a par with my existing set. My budget is flexible up to about £5K if it really is worthwhile to spend that much but if a set half that price will do the job & the extra £2K buys only marginal improvements then I would rather save my money & spend it on audio gear.

Given the requirements above I would be grateful for recommendations. So c'mon help me spend my money :)
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Its worthwhile upgrading the TV but only if you plan on pairing the TV with UHD and HDR content. If you are predominantly using HD quality stuff still it may be wise to keep with what you have until you have more plans to use 4k. Watching HD on an UHD model is fine, its a bit like watching 720p on a 1080p TV..its okay, but where the TVs really shine is when you pairing them with the content they are designed for so they can play it back at native resolution. With 8k the upscaling is prominent even more, with 4k images no longer displayed natively.

So it really depends what you intend to use and how much UHD/HDR content you will think you'll use. With the likes of Apple/Netfflix/Amazon/Disney there's more and more HDR content available but that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll watch the exact shows or movies available in HDR. Certainly if you plan on using UHD Blu-Rays then that changes things somewhat since they are the pinnacle of UHD and HDR picture quality.

HDR is not a gimmick and is the future of video. The benefits to the picture are with heightened contrast, spectacular highlights and a broader range of colours but you'll only benefit from these when you play back HDR content on the TV. Its not something you can really enjoy, or benefit from with all content.

And that really brings me back to square one, because these TVs are set to shine mostly with newer content, there's little value in buying one unless you pair it with that content, but if you do, there's definitely value to be found in TVs like the 75"/82" Q70R, Q85R or Q90R and the Sony 75XG9505 too. OLEDs again are in a different class and will offer much better all-round picture quality, but the 77" models carry a large premium. Many people are waiting hoping that the 77" LG C9 drops in price soon though, so it may be worth keeping an eye on that.

One thing that is worth thinking about right now in terms of future proofing isn't just HDR picture quality, but also the introduction of HDMI 2.1. The only TV's that offer support on 4x HDMI ports for that are LGs 2019/2020 models, or Samsung's 2020 models, although I believe only the 8k Samsung models have more than a single HDMI 2.1 port.
 

nigelbb

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. However I still have questions...

I would definitely buy a 4K Blu-ray player to pair with the TV. Any recommendations?

I don't see any point replacing my current 60" plasma unless I can get picture quality that is at least as good but I also don't see the point in replacing the TV unless I also get a much larger screen size. Is an LED TV going to give me an equivalent image? I can find a 75" at under £1000 eg Samsung UE75TU7000 Would that be disappointing compared to my old plasma?

Are OLEDs really worth the extra money? I see that for a 77" OLED prices start at £4,999 whereas I can buy a Samsung 4K QLED 75Q90R set for £2,799 or even an 8K QLED Samsung 75Q950R set for £3,499. The reviews I have read put the top end Samsung QLED on a par with OLED. I could buy a lot of audio gear with the £1500-2,200 I saved buying a Samsung QLED.

Finally I Googled but am still unclear why I should care about HDMI 2.1
 
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SilverGamer

Active Member
Interesting. As I just posted a very similar question.

Finally I Googled but am still unclear why I should care about HDMI 2.1.. Arguably.... If you don't care about gaming at all then it's probably not a deal breaker. There are manufacturers out there gambling on this still by releasing 2020 sets without this "basic" feature. Personally I wouldn't touch a set without at least 1 port that supported all the 2.1 feature set, but I potentially have different uses.
 
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nigelbb

Distinguished Member
Interesting. As I just posted a very similar question.

Finally I Googled but am still unclear why I should care about HDMI 2.1.. Arguably.... If you don't care about gaming at all then it's probably not a deal breaker. There are manufacturers out there gambling on this still by releasing 2020 sets without this "basic" feature. Personally I wouldn't touch a set without at least 1 port that supported all the 2.1 feature set, but I potentially have different uses.
I took a look at your post. Our situation appears very similar. Like you I'm unsure whether I would be happier with the largest screen that I can get for my money or the one with the best HDR. I know when I bought my plasma that the image was definitely better than any LED TV available at that time but technology moves on & maybe I would find an 85" Sony KD85XG8596BU for £2,199 or an 86" LG 86UN85006LA for £2,299 just as good as my existing TV but with an enormously larger screen.
 

GreyMutton

Active Member
My 2p worth...
The ability to display HDR to a decent level does really make a difference as dodge said. I went from a mid range 55 inch Samsung LED-LCD, which had passable HDR, set to a 65 inch B9. The difference is really noticeable with the right source material. Watched Blade Runner 2049 on 4k blu ray last night and it was stunning.
That's not to say you need to go OLED, the high end Samsungs are excellent performers with HDR. If you can get a Q90R in the size you're looking for it would be a great choice.
From reviews the top tier samsungs compete with oled in a lot of ways now, with the added advantage of the increased brightness plus an excellent OS and reflection filter.
If going for an LCD set I really wouldn't go for anything but Samsung as no other manufacturers come close to them.
The other option is OLED but, at that size, its not going to leave you anything left over for your sound system. I doubt you'll regret it as the pictures are beautiful but then I doubt you'd regret the Samsung either.
If you're set on keeping in budget to get a sound system buy the Samsung. If you're wall mounting bear in mind it'll be heavy so keep that in mind.
Good luck and hope you enjoy the new set up.
 

SilverGamer

Active Member
GM - Does the Samsung Q90R offer any compatibility with the VRR features on the new PS5 / XBOX ? I also like most of the other 2.1 features too :)

I can see the 75Q90R for example around £2800. But I know it didn't have HDMI 2.1, the Samsung website doesn't show the info under "Specification" & I don't want to buy any TV that's out of date within a few months of it being put on the wall.
 

SilverGamer

Active Member
I took a look at your post. Our situation appears very similar. Like you I'm unsure whether I would be happier with the largest screen that I can get for my money or the one with the best HDR. I know when I bought my plasma that the image was definitely better than any LED TV available at that time but technology moves on & maybe I would find an 85" Sony KD85XG8596BU for £2,199 or an 86" LG 86UN85006LA for £2,299 just as good as my existing TV but with an enormously larger screen.

I know I wont be happy with a lower end set, something edge-lit. But there's a chance that I could get a higher-end QLED 75+ for way less money. But at least 1 port supporting VRR, eARC, etc is essential to me.
 

GreyMutton

Active Member
Hi yes the Q90R supports VRR, ALLM and HDR 4k over one of the ports. Also has a very low latency as well.
Although it doesn't have hdmi 2.1 they have enabled the majority of its headline features over 2.0b. For 4k gaming it's plenty.
 

SilverGamer

Active Member
Hi yes the Q90R supports VRR, ALLM and HDR 4k over one of the ports. Also has a very low latency as well.
Although it doesn't have hdmi 2.1 they have enabled the majority of its headline features over 2.0b. For 4k gaming it's plenty.

From a brief search it seems like eARC was promised, but still not delivered. I'm very nervous about buying a TV that may be missing a key feature I need in the future.

Additionally I believe no Samsung TV supports Dolby HDR and as I'd get most of my such content from Netflix & Amazon that seems another huge omission.
 
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GreyMutton

Active Member
From a brief search it seems like eARC was promised, but still not delivered. I'm very nervous about buying a TV that may be missing a key feature I need in the future.

Additionally I believe no Samsung TV supports Dolby HDR and as I'd get most of my such content from Netflix & Amazon that seems another huge omission.
True it doesn't have dolby vision but it doesn't need to tone map as much content as other TVs due to the high peak brightness.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Samsung Q90R doesn't use true HDMI 2.1 ports but has adapted its HDMI 2.0 ports to use some HDMI 2.1 features like VRR. Its not clear how that will work with actual HDMI 2.1 devices yet because there are none to test! In fact, its unclear even how TVs that do have HDMI 2.1 ports will play with HDMI 2.1 source devices yet because of this! Believe me, there are always teething issues, even when you know the devices support the chipset.

I would definitely buy a 4K Blu-ray player to pair with the TV. Any recommendations?
I haven't followed reviews for spinners recently but I am happy with my Panasonic UB900. If you buy a TV now though you'll want to also buy a player that matches the HDR formats the TV supports, so HDR10+/Dolby Vision or both. All players support HDR10.
I don't see any point replacing my current 60" plasma unless I can get picture quality that is at least as good but I also don't see the point in replacing the TV unless I also get a much larger screen size. Is an LED TV going to give me an equivalent image? I can find a 75" at under £1000 eg Samsung UE75TU7000 Would that be disappointing compared to my old plasma?
Its really hard to compare like this. Not just are you comparing different technology, but comparing all kinds of different price points. The TU7000 is an entry level model from Samsung, so its going to compare a lot more to entry level TVs when you bought your current TV than your current model. TVs aren't too different from AV equipment as a whole like speakers, amps etc. A good TV is always a good TV and its not going to be bested overall by budget models years later..the main differences will be with the software and the formats it supports. So if you watch 4k non-HDR content on the TU7000 you will for sure think 'wow this looks great' but that doesn't mean its going to be a better overall TV compared to your old model, particular when you use it with content that makes more demands on the TVs motion, or content that needs more upscaling since its a 4k panel.

As for more expensive LCD TVs, now then you start to make less compromises compared to your current TV. Again though, different technologies mean you are comparing an apple to a pear, but at least you make more steps forward this way than backwards. With LCD TVs the more you spend the better HDR performance you get...not necessarily overall better picture quality, so a high end LCD TV isn't going to polish older less than 4k content too much better than a budget one.

Of course motion is another factor and another reason to spend more, but you only need to reach mid range models like the Samsung 75" Q60R to get decent motion, whilst you need to spend a lot more on the Q70R (or the higher end TVs you mention) if you want to use HDR on the TV, the more you spend, the better HDR looks when you use it and the more benefit you'll get compared to your old TV.

Because they are different technologies though, there will be regressions in some areas which you will think your old TV did better, but that is just the nature of changing technology. Overall you should be more than pleased with a new model providing you have high quality content to back it up!

To go back to my audio analogy, you could have a really nice turntable for audio playback from the 70s which sounds great, even today. But you may find if you were to update to use a modern digital music platform instead you'll see a big gain in quality. This doesn't mean that the new platform will be better in all respects compared to your old turntable, but if you do use modern music and value what technology brings to newer products of course you'll see a benefit. The same is true with TVs.

Are OLEDs really worth the extra money? I see that for a 77" OLED prices start at £4,999 whereas I can buy a Samsung 4K QLED 75Q950R set for £2,799 or even an 8K QLED Samsung 75Q950R set for £3,499. The reviews I have read put the top end Samsung QLED on a par with OLED. I could buy a lot of audio gear with the £1500-2,200 I saved buying a Samsung QLED.
The larger you go with LCD TVs the more LCD TVs become better value and the worse value OLEDs become. You can see this by looking at the price difference of the same TVs at larger sizes at smaller sizes. At larger sizes the LG C9 by far out-costs the Samsung Q90R, but at 55" they are similar in price. So of course there's better value at larger sizes for LCD TVs. The gap each year is getting smaller, but at the moment its more expensive to make larger OLEDs, which is why they are more expensive at larger sizes.

Here's a comparison of the technologies: LCD versus OLED
 
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nigelbb

Distinguished Member
I thought that I would update with what I eventually purchased. I had considered both the 4K QLED Samsung 75Q90R & the 8K QLED Samsung 75Q950R. Stock seems to be getting low as Richer Sounds no longer have stock of either & only John Lewis & Samsung themselves have the latter for sale. Eventually I went for the Samsung 75Q950R. I have had a windfall & wanted to spend it on something that I would really appreciate & that I wouldn't have considered without the windfall. I also ordered a Samsung Q90R soundbar.

It all arrived yesterday. The set is massive the box even more so. It took a while to install & was slightly scary as my partner & I lugged around the massive, massively expensive screen. The picture is amazing. The blacks the same deep inky black that I had on the 60" plasma. The sharp detail is fantastic. I'm a keen photographer & it's wonderful viewing my photos on the big screen. A few test 4K video files look amazing & even upscaled HD material looks better than on the old HD set. I'm still in the process of tweaking the picture. Out of the box it was far too bright & red & I've toned it down to more natural levels. Given my large investment I'm considering getting it properly calibrated although if anyone has links to some DIY instructions I would be happy to spend some time on this..

The Samsung Q90R soundbar is remarkably effective. Very loud & very good in generating the surround sound field. I'm sure that the wireless rear speakers help a lot. It's surprising that Samsung appear to have discontinued this model & no longer sell a soundbar with wireless rear speakers.
 
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nigelbb

Distinguished Member
Just as a further update I have discovered that it's impossible to display photos in native 8K. As this is the reason that I opted for an 8K set over a 4K one then the set is going back for a refund & I have ordered the Samsung 75Q90R from John Lewis with 5 year guarantee & a saving of £700.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Just as a further update I have discovered that it's impossible to display photos in native 8K. As this is the reason that I opted for an 8K set over a 4K one then the set is going back for a refund & I have ordered the Samsung 75Q90R from John Lewis with 5 year guarantee & a saving of £700.
You can display photos in 8k but you need a HDMI 2.1 source. You are limited to 8k 30hz.
 

nigelbb

Distinguished Member
You can display photos in 8k but you need a HDMI 2.1 source. You are limited to 8k 30hz.
Why can't Samsung offer native 8K viewing of still images via the built in photo browser so they can be viewed from a USB stick? Theoretically it can display 8K photos at 8K via HDMI 2.1 but I've done a lot of Googling & haven't found any reports of anyone actually doing this. I'm not prepared to lay out another few hundred pounds on a graphics card to be a pioneer then discover that it doesn't work properly.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Why can't Samsung offer native 8K viewing of still images via the built in photo browser so they can be viewed from a USB stick? Theoretically it can display 8K photos at 8K via HDMI 2.1 but I've done a lot of Googling & haven't found any reports of anyone actually doing this. I'm not prepared to lay out another few hundred pounds on a graphics card to be a pioneer then discover that it doesn't work properly.
This is really what we have come to expect from built in TV software, and especially so when new technology is in transition. Manufacturers will release technology too early letting users beta test it.

But even with a graphics card you might not be able to get 8k anyway because none of them have HDMI 2.1 support. Part of the problem is there are no HDMI 2.1 devices and a HDMI 2.1 device is needed for 8k resolution.

Just take a look at this image. Anything that is a speed higher than premium needs HDMI 2.1:
1594053517731.png

For photo viewing you'd need something capable of at least 8k 24hz 4:4:4 RGB which would be ultra.

As HDMI 2.1 becomes more common you'll be able to view 8k no problem on a smart stick supporting it like a Fire or Roku.
 

nigelbb

Distinguished Member
TBH the photos look fabulous in 4K at normal viewing distances or even closer on the 75" screen so there is probably no point to 8K. It's an enormous step up from HD as I always found photos on the 60" HD plasma were soft & lacking in detail.
 

nigelbb

Distinguished Member
I changed my mind again as the price on the QE75Q950R just dropped £500. I've cancelled the QE75Q90R & ordered another QE75Q950R with 5 year warranty from John Lewis. It's a £500 saving on what the current set cost me from Samsung & only £200 more than the QE75Q90R. I'll be keeping this set for 10 years or more so for the extra £200 I may as well invest in the possibility of displaying my photos at 8K sometime in the future.
 

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