Recommend an Efficient Mask

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
FFP3 is hard to wear, makes you SOB very quickyl.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
The USA CDC has now recommended that face coverings be worn

CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies), especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.

CDC also advises the use of simple cloth face coverings to slow the spread of the virus and help people who may have the virus and do not know it from transmitting it to others. Cloth face coverings fashioned from household items or made at home from common materials at low cost can be used as an additional, voluntary public health measure.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
 

ds8819

Standard Member
The ineffectiveness of homemade facemasks

Thought I would share this important information which identifies how some facemasks are useless for protection against the transmission of coronavirus..

The article also identifies that the 2metre distancing rule is not adequate to protect you.

Stay safe & survive.

 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
If you are working close to people, FFP3 and don't talk at all and you won't get short of breath IMO.

If its for going to the shops, just distance and stay away from people.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
Hmm, that is the thing though. When it goes straight through, if anything better than nothing other than being a placebo and perhaps make the wearer feel a bit better? I think it is a false sense of security and as such dangerous.
Agreed. People wearing inefficient masks might change their behaviour because they think they are "safe". The best thing about people wearing masks is that it protects me a little bit from them. I'm responsible for my mother so I just "try" to be careful and now that I have stocked up her house, I just stay inside with her unless I have to go to work.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Agreed. People wearing inefficient masks might change their behaviour because they think they are "safe". The best thing about people wearing masks is that it protects me a little bit from them. I'm responsible for my mother so I just "try" to be careful and now that I have stocked up her house, I just stay inside with her unless I have to go to work.
And the best thing if you were to wear a mask is that it protects them a bit from you....
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
And the best thing if you were to wear a mask is that it protects them a bit from you....
lol fair point. But I remember hearing on more than one occasion about people with masks potentially being more likely to be infected than not. Today again I was reading about how the majority of cloth masks are useless and that reuse actually makes them dangerous.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
lol fair point. But I remember hearing on more than one occasion about people with masks potentially being more likely to be infected than not. Today again I was reading about how the majority of cloth masks are useless and that reuse actually makes them dangerous.
Analyses show that if 50% of the population were to wear masks, only 50% of the population would be infected by the virus. Once 80% of the population wears a mask, theoutbreak can be stopped immediately.Source: Modeling the Effectiveness of Respiratory Protective Devices in Reducing Influenza Outbreak - PubMed

You want to read the advice given by the Office of the Principal Scientific Advisor to the Government of India_ March 30, 2020

DIY Cloth masks: A double layer of 100% cotton cloth is about 70% as effective as a surgical mask at capturing small particles (up to five times smaller than coronavirus). Unlike a surgical mask it can be washed and reused.

How to Clean and Sanitize your Homemade Mask Everyday
1. Thoroughly wash the mask in soap and warm water and leave it to dry in hot sun for at least 5 hours.If you do not have access to the sun, follow Option 2:
2. Place the mask in water in a pressure cooker andpressure boil it for at least 10 minutes and leave it to dry. Adding salt to the water is recommended. In the absence of a pressure cooker, you may boil the cloth mask in hot water for 15 minutes.
3. Wash and clean with soap and apply heat on the mask for up to five minutes. (You may use an iron).

 

Coulson

Well-known Member
Analyses show that if 50% of the population were to wear masks, only 50% of the population would be infected by the virus. Once 80% of the population wears a mask, theoutbreak can be stopped immediately.Source: Modeling the Effectiveness of Respiratory Protective Devices in Reducing Influenza Outbreak - PubMed

You want to read the advice given by the Office of the Principal Scientific Advisor to the Government of India_ March 30, 2020

DIY Cloth masks: A double layer of 100% cotton cloth is about 70% as effective as a surgical mask at capturing small particles (up to five times smaller than coronavirus). Unlike a surgical mask it can be washed and reused.

How to Clean and Sanitize your Homemade Mask Everyday
1. Thoroughly wash the mask in soap and warm water and leave it to dry in hot sun for at least 5 hours.If you do not have access to the sun, follow Option 2:
2. Place the mask in water in a pressure cooker andpressure boil it for at least 10 minutes and leave it to dry. Adding salt to the water is recommended. In the absence of a pressure cooker, you may boil the cloth mask in hot water for 15 minutes.
3. Wash and clean with soap and apply heat on the mask for up to five minutes. (You may use an iron).
.....and you've just highlighted another problem. Different regions, different countries, different advice.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
.....and you've just highlighted another problem. Different regions, different countries, different advice.
Same virus...
In Europe three countries are now asking that masks be worn by everyone. The USA CDC joined that call on Friday and it is highly likely that Spain will join them in the next day or two. Due to lack of supply of ready made masks all are going down the DIY mask route.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
Same virus...
In Europe three countries are now asking that masks be worn by everyone. The USA CDC joined that call on Friday and it is highly likely that Spain will join them in the next day or two. Due to lack of supply of ready made masks all are going down the DIY mask route.
So you are saying that it is beginning to coalesce so the same issue remains. Even when it comes to masks, there's different advice as to what type of mask is useful. I'm not saying don't wear a mask, I'm just pointing out the obvious lack of coordination and confusing information.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
So you are saying that it is beginning to coalesce so the same issue remains. Even when it comes to masks, there's different advice as to what type of mask is useful. I'm not saying don't wear a mask, I'm just pointing out the obvious lack of coordination and confusing information.
If you are in one of the increasing number of countries that are recommending or making obligatory that masks be worn there is nothing confusing about it. Basically anything which reduces the amount of virus that can be expelled or ingested is useful.

Authorities in Lombardy, the Italian region worst affected by coronavirus, have enacted a law obliging citizens to wear face masks when they go outside
Lombardy insists on face masks outside homes to stop Covid-19
 
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Skyfall74

Active Member
Read the comments as hepa filters generally contain fibreglass. You dont want that getting in your lungs
Why would you use a hepa filter to make your own mask?

In the video, he says you can use a hand towel or a T-shirt etc.

Be careful, Chocci, not to discredit a good message here.
 

Chocci

Member
Why would you use a hepa filter to make your own mask?

In the video, he says you can use a hand towel or a T-shirt etc.

Be careful, Chocci, not to discredit a good message here.
Oops! That was on the next youtube video that played after yours. Yes, I fully agree with the video you posted. Apologies .
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
Public mask wearing in successful countries which have contained the virus better than us have used really basic masks.

Its on the principal that you are protecting other people from your droplets (not the other way round).

I wouldn't start buying up FFP3 masks because they won't be very comfortable to use and in all honesty, they're needed elsewhere.
 

Michael

Well-known Member
kenshingintoki is smack on the money here.

Basic, non-filtering masks may not protect you completely from other people.
But they definitely help stop your particles infecting others.

In countries where mask use is common normally, it is polite to wear a mask when you have a cold.
Does it stop 100% of infection? Of course not.
But persuading derek the 40-a-day smoker to have a permanent mouth cover when he's a bit under the weather is going to help.

In this situation, with so many asymptomatics, everyone should be wearing something over their mouth, if only to bump the infection rates down a little (provided, of course, that those somethings do not impact medical care)
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
There was an interesting article in the Economist about masks. Basically the conclusion was that as long as there are enough masks for medical staff then it would be of benefit if the public wore them too. The main arguments against (other than ensuring supply for medics) was that they can result in people being less cautious.

It was also interesting as they discussed the effectiveness of surgical masks against N95 masks for doctors. Essentially research had shown that surgical masks were as effective in protecting doctors as the preferred N95 masks. It had been assumed that N95 masks would be required as they prevent the pass through of aerosolised (basically very tiny water droplets - I think that was the spelling) water droplets whereas surgical masks do not. However, it appears that patients coughing etc. do not generally generate aerosolised water droplets - they just cough out a spray of water droplets of the size that a surgical mask can stop. However, there are certain medical situations that may generate very tiny water droplets - such as when intubating a patient - so for those situations an N95 mask would still be the preferred option.

Note that proper surgical masks have multiple layers which can be water resistant and are much better than those simple single layer things with elastic loops that go around your ears, that many people wear. I assume that there shouldn't be anywhere still selling proper surgical masks to the public to ensure supply to the NHS.
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
There was an interesting article in the Economist about masks. Basically the conclusion was that as long as there are enough masks for medical staff then it would be of benefit if the public wore them too. The main arguments against (other than ensuring supply for medics) was that they can result in people being less cautious.

It was also interesting as they discussed the effectiveness of surgical masks against N95 masks for doctors. Essentially research had shown that surgical masks were as effective in protecting doctors as the preferred N95 masks. It had been assumed that N95 masks would be required as they prevent the pass through of aerosolised (basically very tiny water droplets - I think that was the spelling) water droplets whereas surgical masks do not. However, it appears that patients coughing etc. do not generally generate aerosolised water droplets - they just cough out a spray of water droplets of the size that a surgical mask can stop. However, there are certain medical situations that may generate very tiny water droplets - such as when intubating a patient - so for those situations an N95 mask would still be the preferred option.

Note that proper surgical masks have multiple layers which can be water resistant and are much better than those simple single layer things with elastic loops that go around your ears, that many people wear. I assume that there shouldn't be anywhere still selling proper surgical masks to the public to ensure supply to the NHS.

Just wondering, where was this sample size and study done? Was this based off of theory or numbers or studies or retrospective analysis of infections:ppe:deaths?
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Just wondering, where was this sample size and study done? Was this based off of theory or numbers or studies or retrospective analysis of infections:ppe:deaths?
Will see if I can find the article. The Economist usually just say "Researchers at <XYZ> Institute have found that..." They do not usually include a bibliography or statistical confidence intervals, etc.

Although the overall result (i.e. surgical masks are effective even though they don't stop aerosolised spray) does seem relatively logical. If surgical masks were of little benefit in protecting doctors then they would never use them when treating patents with respiratory disease.
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
Will see if I can find the article. The Economist usually just say "Researchers at <XYZ> Institute have found that..." They do not usually include a bibliography or statistical confidence intervals, etc.

Although the overall result (i.e. surgical masks are effective even though they don't stop aerosolised spray) does seem relatively logical. If surgical masks were of little benefit in protecting doctors then they would never use them when treating patents with respiratory disease.

The general concensus within medics is that the surgical masks aren't great. For AGPs, we use FFP3s.

I feel surgical masks being used and their effectivness should be in context of how they're used. For example, anyone using surgical mask use in China as an example for how effective it is should take into account their PPE is significantly better than ours in terms of quantitiy.
 

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