1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Recommend a CD Player.

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by Johnny Thunder, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Middlesbrough
    Ratings:
    +139
    I am currently playing all my CD's on my DVD player, Pioneer DV656A.
    I am considering adding a dedicated CD player.
    Could you please advise me as to how much I would have to spend in order to greatly improve music playback.
    I know the Denon 3805 is not the greatest for handling music, but I am assuming that a dedicated CD player will still give me some improvement.
    I am looking into other alternatives ie,power amps/monoblocks, but, I am also considering upgrading other areas of my system too, so I may just opt for a CD player now and put my finances into another area of the system.
    Thanks everyone.

    Johnny.
     
  2. cwilson

    cwilson
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Messages:
    403
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    scunthorpe
    Ratings:
    +0
    how much money are yoy thinking of spending
     
  3. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Middlesbrough
    Ratings:
    +139
    I am willing to look at wide range of equipment with varying prices, final decision will depend on what other equipment I decide on too.
    Any suggestions, all prices................
    Cheers.

    Johnny.
     
  4. Daneel

    Daneel
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,843
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +8
    I would suggest that changing your CD player will not give you much improvement if any at all. Have a look at the rather long thread on the subject in this forum.

    Here it is.
     
  5. superpixel

    superpixel
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I second that, don't expect to hear big, if any, differences.

    I use a £80 Sony 370 CD player through my £4k worth of stereo amp and speakers out of choice, and I've heard and owned most of the usual suspects up to £2000 worth. The difference between most of them is subtle.

    Money spent elsewhere brings much greater returns.
     
  6. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Middlesbrough
    Ratings:
    +139
    I am convinced..............
    So what do you recommend for £100.......... ;)

    Johnny.
     
  7. jookster

    jookster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I find the comments on there being virtually no difference in CD players very interesting. I have only really auditioned two cd players in my time an Arcam Alpha 7 and Marantz CD 63 ki sig. I have to say there was a clear difference with the Arcam being warmer, slower and more plodding compared to the Marantz. It was a bad choice for my valve amp.

    Any comments?

    Cheers!
     
  8. Daneel

    Daneel
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,843
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +8
    Yes, many, in the thread I linked above.
     
  9. superpixel

    superpixel
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    i've owned both the arcam (SE version) and marantz for many years now!

    you are right - the difference is there to hear. but this is for two reasons:

    1) the marantz has such an obvious 'sound' that few players have nowadays, including marantz's own newer models. Its treble is exaggerated a lot, and its bass is lacking in definition and solidity.

    2) the arcam 7 has a rare output of ultrasonic frequencies which can raise amplifier compatibility issues

    players without such oddities sound very similar - and this is the vast majority. even between the marantz and arcam, i can generate much bigger sound differences purely by changing the interconnects used. i poured money down the drain on those players (and much more expensive ones and DACS!) - my Sony does everything better. this is the point - you dont get what you pay for with CD players.
     
  10. superpixel

    superpixel
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    JT, If I were you, and I had the credit limit, I'd pop along to my local friendly dealer and take a few boxes on loan for a few days:

    1. A Sony CD player (CD only, not SACD capable)
    2. Their recommended player around the £1000 mark
    3. A Rotel RB-1080 (as a quality stereo power amp for the fronts)
    4. A £2000+ AV Amp (eg Denon AVC- A1SRA, Sony TADA9000ES, Pioneer VSA-AX10Ai).

    I am confident which one of those four won't be seeing your money...
     
  11. jookster

    jookster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hey Superpixel,

    Just wondering what the deal is with a cheap 370 Sony being so good? Is it a particularly balanced sound?

    Also do you go along with a DVD player sounding little different to a CD player too?

    Cheers
     
  12. Mango Bob

    Mango Bob
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    513
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    Johnny, the budget option is the Limit 900 dvd player, £100 from play - have a hunt for the threads about it. Cyrus have designed the analogue audio sections of it to produce a musical DVD player...I've not got one but several people on threads have said it's comparable to a several-hundred quid CDP.

    I'm now hunting for more info as I'm not too happy with my DVD player as a music source.
     
  13. Knightshade

    Knightshade
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,004
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +43
    A Cheap DVD player and a very good dac and several grands worth of amp and speakers so you can hear all the subtle differences.
    If you're not able to do that then probably best to stick with what you have. :)
     
  14. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Middlesbrough
    Ratings:
    +139
    Excellent replies.......cheers guys.

    Johnny.
     
  15. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Middlesbrough
    Ratings:
    +139
    Do you think I would notice a difference with a decent power amp and a budget CDP...?

    Johnny.
     
  16. Knightshade

    Knightshade
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,004
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +43
    Trick is finding the balance Johnny.
    It's a waste blowing a load of money on a CDP unless you have the amps and speakers to go with it.
    I think the thread that Daneel pointed out is very useful indeed. If I was doing it again I think i'd go for a good transport (probably DVDA type) and high end DAC (High end - Not necessarily high price!) At least you've got the source sorted then add a Pre and single stereo power amp that I like the sound of and speakers to match.
    I think, quite possibly, in certain systems adding a power amp can make more of a difference than adding a better CDP.
    Every systems different so It's back to the demo room.....
     
  17. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Middlesbrough
    Ratings:
    +139
    KS could you tell me why use a DAC in this situation.........
    I am starting to get a bit mixed up here.
    I was looking into monoblocks, but decided that main expense
    will probably go on new DVD and scaler, so monoblocks were
    forgotten about.
    To be honest, with this new setup I have got, I am extremely
    happy with music performance as it is(I have never had a classy
    music setup), but the amount of improvement I have found, and
    thats an AV amp, has got me curious about the music side too.
    From the link Daneel gave me, my interpretations are telling me to
    hold off on the music for now, and when I do it, do it properly.

    Johnny.
     
  18. superpixel

    superpixel
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    in my experience, the difference a power amp upgrade can make is revolutionary compared to a different CD player.

    ive never heard your equipment JT, but you'll easily hear a difference, whether its a worthwhile one is the important question, and is up to you to decide. I would wager that adding for example a Rotel RB1080 (can you gain match and biamp with the Denon?) would be worth it for music if you liked the sound (£700 price-ish?), and that the Denon or Pioneer superamps would be the same (£1500 upgrade?). They'll outlast a healthy speaker upgrade in the future too. So give it a try, certainly. The beauty is: you enjoy your sound now, which many don't. This means you can relax and be objective and not rush into buying something you will regret, if you buy anything at all.

    Jooks:

    I haven't compared DVD and CD sound for CD-playback too closely, not at all, really: ive maybe listened to a few songs maximum. From this, Id say my cheapo DVD player doesn't sound as good as my cheapo CD player (soundstage and frequency extremes are the main points - detail is there and nasties are absent), but that's on material I know inside out. The DVD still stands up well, and isn't rubbish by any means.

    Why is the Sony 370 so good? Well sonically, Id describe its qualities as superb dynamics, neutrality, and a togetherness and coherence no matter what is being played. If your collection does not consist solely of hifi demonstration favourites, then it excels. Detail, bass, imaging - you name it, it does it. Technically, I don't know why players at twenty times its price can't do better. But who makes all those transports used in megabucks players, eh? :D
     
  19. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,671
    As Knightshade says,the trick is finding the right balance....there is not doubt that under the right circumstances,a suitable CD upgrade can make as big a difference as a power amp upgrade,but only if the rest of the system will show the differences.

    A dedicated CD player or transport/DAC combination can be vastly superior to a lot of DVD players,but the two may not be in any way comparable in terms of price.
    I think that what a decent modern DVD player such as the Pioneer 565 can do,at the price level it contends at,is superb value for money,but it wouldn't get my vote for serious time on music only.

    Knightshade's point about a decent transport(DVD player for instance,is perfectly feasible)and a good DAC for stereo CD is very sensible....I've tried a number of DACs over the yrs,from Levinson and dCS(admittedly not my own!)through to the ones I own(Perpetual technologies and MF),and the gains can be very significant and very noticeable.

    My own experiences would agree with Daneels....if/when you decide to spend out on a music only system,research it very carefully,spending time with the choices,and put a decent bit of money into it,as you'll save in the long run against items which you'd otherwise get rid of quickly.
     
  20. Knightshade

    Knightshade
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,004
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +43
    Just personal choice and my own experience. A £100 DVD player with a good DAC bolted to it will hold you in good stead for a few thousand pounds worth of amp upgrades.
    As I stated in the earlier thread I don't see the point in most £500 - £1000(ish) CDP's. The same can be achieved by a cheap DVD and a good DAC as has been stated the same transports can be found in cheaper models. Modifications are made to power supplies, circuit design etc but the transports are the same.
     
  21. jookster

    jookster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I think that power amps and speakers are what make the difference in the sound. That and your room's accoustics.

    Still think that a Marantz CD 63 ki sig might be a particularly good match for my Leak Stereo 20...
     
  22. cwilson

    cwilson
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Messages:
    403
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    scunthorpe
    Ratings:
    +0
    why not have a word with your local dealer, arrange a demo, taking along those items of your kit you need to set up a a/b demo. If you can not hear the differences, then there are non, if you can hear them, there are,
    I have read through the threads on CDP sound, and can only comment that the difference I heard between a technics and rotel player were small but noticeable. However when a Rega CDP player was used the difference was chalk and cheese. Changing the rotel amp to a rega amp brought more changes, but not as many as changing the CD Player.
     

Share This Page

Loading...