Receiver/subwoofer upgrade

MasterC

Member
Hello

I have now over some time decided that is is time to upgrade my small home cinemas sound system.
As for right now it is the time to upgrade the subwoofer and surround receiver.

My current setup is the following:

Receiver: Sony DN1080
Front: Dali Oberon 5
Center: Dali Oberon Vokal
Surround: Dali Alteco C-1
Subwoofer: Dali SUB 9-E

I have attatched some quick drawings over my room and with the current setup.

Receiver:
I have looked into getting the Onkyo TX-RZ50, I have read good about this thing around the internet, from people who have got some presamples for testing.
Unfortunately I have spooked with a danish dealer who sels Onkyo, that they do not think they will get any this year. and I'm not going to wait for it to happen.
One of the main things that speaks very well for this receiver is the Dirac Live, which I believe should be top of the line in room correction?
But what is my alternatives, if I have to buy something that is released and available for now? I know that the current electronic situation in the world is horrible right now, but there is still some places where you can buy Denon and Mareatz for example.
I DON'T need 8K, so all the existing receivers that have problems with that is not an issue for me.

Subwoofer:
I need some more bass/slamming, so my little Sub 9-E have to be replaced by one or two new subwoofers.
A little research have guided me in the direction on maybe one SVS PB2000 Pro (or two, but these subwoofers are massive)/PB3000 og maybe two Monolith 10" THX subwoofers.
After what I can read, people are almost always saying that two subwoofers is better than one? I also believe that have two subwoofers is better for "bad" placement?


My usage for the system is movies streamed on Apple TV4K (iTunes, Disney Plus and so on), and music is either played from the Apple Music app on the AppleTV or from my computer via optical toslink.
I would say that I'm 50/50 on music and movie usage on the system.

Budget on the subwoofers is around 1.600 euro's and for the receiver is also in that area give or take.
On the last note I might wanna go for Atmos in the future, but not for now, so the receiver should be prepared for 5.x.2/4.

So please, give your input and wisdom on this subject - thank you in advance!

//Chris
 

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gibbsy

Moderator
Arcam, NAD and Anthem will have a better stereo music performance than the majority of the offerings from Denon and Marantz. They will also have superior room correction with ARC and Dirac Live, as will the top models from Onkyo and Pioneer when they eventually arrive.

An alternative, although perhaps not cheaper, would be a lower spec'd AV amp alongside a stereo amp with HT by-pass for stereo music, a system that I have been running for a good few years.
 

MasterC

Member
Hello gibbsy

I have also been looking on the NAD T778, more expensive, but should be a sure win, but unfortunately as I have read, it do not support adjusting/room calibrate them individually.

Do you have any suggestion on a receiver and power amp in mind, I believe that is what you are referring to?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
There is some odd bugs, restarts randomly etc. if you read members here moving from T778 to Anthem and others, but that one seems to have fan issue with the MRX740 model. 🤭 I don´t know should one laugh or cry. It´s horrible to see such expensive units pushed to market in rush before fully tested that they work, instead customers are used as beta testers and now they are milking more money for the addition of new hdmi 2.1 boards.

Onkyo and Pioneer are both introducing more receivers RZ-70 & 90 / LX-705 & LX-905 as you want Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) for dual subwoofers with independent level/delay settings. That can be found in Denon/Marantz units X3700H/SR6015 upwards with MultEQ XT32 and Yamaha RX-A6A/A8A and only in Anthem MRX1140. The DLBC will cost extra.

If you have 6meter long and 2,4m wide room, you would sit roughly 40% from front/rear wall (don´t sit dead middle if possible) then you really want dual subs so both of those seats get smoother bass response without localization. So one sub at front left and second at rear right (or opposite). You are quite tight on space with speakers in corners so 25% front wall width then for each front/rear but diagonally opposite. This is not a subwoofer section, but i would say two PB1000 Pro would make more sense than one PB2000 Pro. If you listen very loud then two PB2000 Pro or two Arendal 1961 1V if you fancy also better looks.
 

MasterC

Member
Thank you for your answer Gasp!

I might also have to bite the apple and maybe consider to go up a tier on the receiver, or go a little cheaper and buy something a little better then what I have now, and maybe next year change it again when I might going to commit to Atmos? I have looked on the Denon 3700/4700 as well, but they are also not in stock in Denmark, but looks like there is coming a batch in a month or so.
The Anthem 740 is also a higher price/tier like the NAD, which also look like it could handle the recruitments, but I have just realized that the second HDMI out is not 18 gbps as needed for running my projector besides my tv. The budget is not locked, but I have to start a place, and I know that you can't get it all for nothing, it is about finding the sweet spot!

I have not tried the Dirac, but that should be the best room correction when you don't have the perfect room for sound, but the Audyssey XT32 will of course be a huge improvement over what my Sony have? I'm not an expert in audio or video, and maybe Dirac is overkill for a person who is not too much into this subject, I believe that you still have to make some adjustment to it, and you don't just plug the microphone in and that's is?

Regarding the room, the dimensions for the room is 6 meters long, 3,6 meters wide and 2,4 meters in height, I might have written the wrong numbers on the pictures, sorry!

The reason I mention the PB2000 Pro's is it comes highly recommended almost everywhere on the internet, including here. As far as I understand it can't get too much subwoofer can it? You just turn it down, and then you have the headroom for the rumble in the jungle for watching music, or when the right song hits the playlist - I'm enjoying bass-heavy music.
Reading on this forum and others people often recommend going bigger than 10" subwoofer (the Monolith are only available in 10" here in Europe as far as I can see).
The Arendal is nicer to look at, but my concern with it is it seems to be ported out the back, which exclude me from having them close up the wall.
The advantage with the SVS Pro's is the build-in DSP, right? So if I'm ending up with a receiver without DLBC, then I don't have do go out and but mini DSP for the subs.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Well i have seen measurements showing XT32 can correct the room modes in bass frequencies nearly as good as Dirac Live with same speakers in same room so it´s not slouch. That is the problem area where the most correction is required. However where Audussey isn`t necessary liked is if you run the full range correction. The editor app (+20€) gives you more freedom able to limit the correction to room transit frequency (~300hz) just like with Dirac or ARC and turn the mid-range compensation off. The end result is better without doubt. Lot of old Audussey haters has changed their minds after hearing it with new tools, including some professional guys in the industry. And now the Yamaha is following this with the latest Aventage models with better YPAO, however we don`t know yet how effective it is for the bass frequencies but there is more potential. I wouldn´t count Yamaha out yet, RX-A6A is one to look for. This also has manual PEQ web setup for tweakers with knowledge and measuring kit, but normal people are more intrested how effective the auto setup is. Yamahas YPAO and Denons Audussey are very easy to use, including the app. Also there is further development coming for Audussey the ability to tweak with laptop so more tools. No idea does it come for the current or future models though.

If you want full range correction then ARC / Dirac has better tools for tweaking, but you also need laptop for both and hours of learning how to optimize things. Lot of people pay for someone come to do it. In Europe Arcam/Anthem are very expensive. There was just video of post Dirac Live tweaks and the professional guys reminded that you should always optimize things as good as you can before running room correction. They can´t do miracles with a click of button, however they can do lot better job if the speakers and subwoofers are placed optimally first place and some effort has been put in your room. Naturally some soft furnishing, bookshelfs, carpet/rug in front of speakers, thick curtains over windows (glass) etc. If you check GIK acoustics site they offer very wife friendly almost art look a like acoustic panels. There is lot of options if your wallet is thick enough and you are serious for good sound. I don´t believe your Sony does any eq for the subwoofer, for speakers yes. There is those different curves Engineer, Flat etc. which you can play with and Off to listen does it sound better or worse.

If you buy miniDSP you also need Umik-1 usb mic and laptop to do measurements. It´s not plug&play device either. In your room it´s clear the best response can be had with diagonally opposite front/rear corners or 1/4 wall width locations, with dual subwoofers and you want receiver that has the ability to set them individually. Yes you are correct you are in full control of the subwoofers so they can´t play too loud, two PB2000 Pro`s would be fine choice in your 21,6sqm room. We do have members with lot bigger ported subs in similar size room so they definitely aren`t "too much". SVS is raising prices in US next month by 200-300$, this means they are very likely going to raise in EU/UK too, you can ask about your SVS distributor is that the case in Denmark and when it happens.

 

MasterC

Member
Thank you for your reply Gasp3621.

I might have to settle with a receiver with Audyssey then, this will also be a huge upgrade from whatever system my Sony is running. It's just frustrating that almost every single piece of electronic is not in stuck, when you are getting ready to buy some new equipment, but that is just the world right now. I will go looking for a receiver with two separate subwoofer outputs, which I now realise that the Onkyo doesn't have. I might settle with a Denon.

I have almost decided that I want to renovate the room, with some build in speakers and also insulate the walls more and add some more "dead" wall instead of the drywalls now.

Thanks for the reply's, but I think that it is time to add a thread in the speaker section and work further from there since I now anyways might install the height channels aswell.

//MasterC
 

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