Recalibration after Audyssey setup

JL12W7

Active Member
Ok folks. I watched an article where a guy and many forums advertise the fact after you have set up the AV Amplifier by running Audyssey to get the volumes right you then set the speaker output to manual and by the use of a sound pressure level meter you then attain 75Db or 80Db at the listening position.

I watched an article that states by doing that you have incorrectly ruined the surround setup as you have disables Audyssey and it no longer calibrates the surround sound past thart level as you have now reset the levels so the AV Amplifier will now give an incorrect surround sound when movie watching as the AV has nto calibrated for the new incresed volume that you set while manually retuning the system, because you tinkered with calibration settings. go to time stamp 39.47 as they explain better than can.

So how can one paly external pink noise with Audyssey running in the AV Amplifier to properly calibrate the AV AMP just to get the sound correct, just wondering how to do that as I assumed after calibration you just ran the AV Amp internal pink nose and set the levels that way but seemingly now that is not correct or am I missing something here.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You'd need to source pink noise test tones that you can play on an external source connected to the AV receiver. I believe the video you posted includes where you can attain such test tones:

by default 2021-12-30 at 22.15.07.png



I also believe REW can generate discrete multichannel pink noise test tones if you run it on a Mac or PC and connect the computer to your AV receiver via HDMI.
 
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JL12W7

Active Member
Yes I am aware of where to obtain the test tone but surely if you are in Audyssey setup you just can not simply stop the automatic audyssey setup and start palying your own pink noise as I assumed the Audyssey internal pink noise did its own thing ran automatically so how can you run your own external pink noise and have the ayudyssey reset the volumes to the new standard that I have run externally using the external pink noise dic with audyssey included. I was not aware you could do this and sorry for bing so stupid here I am asking how do I do that particular task if you know how please explain as I am all ears, again sorry for my ignorance.

I simply would like to know how do I play an external pink noise with audyssey active so I can reset the volumes using a sound pressure level meter.
 
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DodgeTheViper

Moderator
Once you have done the Audyssey calibration you can use an external test disc to set and check the levels.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
you just can not simply stop the automatic audyssey setup …


You don't .

What you do is run the calibration and then manually adjust the speaker levels post calibration.


There's nothing to prevent you changing the levels that were arrived at by the calibration. Simply adjust them manually via the levels settings in the speaker configurations.
 

JL12W7

Active Member
You don't .

What you do is run the calibration and then manually adjust the speaker levels post calibration.


There's nothing to prevent you changing the levels that were arrived at by the calibration. Simply adjust them manually via the levels settings in the speaker configurations.
Seemingly that will ruin what audyssey has done and will ruin the overall calibration you can only calibrate with audyssey active while adjusting the levels if you do as you have suggested then you have really undone the Audessey setup that has been applied by audyssey. Watch the video I attached in a previous post and fast forward to 39 minutes they explain by recalibrating manually within the av amp and you adjust the levels you are basically not going to get a very cohesive surround sound as audyssey has to be enabled while adjusting the sound levels. Tricky isn’t it. As yet no one has come back to me to explain how one can do that I have e mailed the authors in the YouTube video to respond but as yet no one has replied and I doubt they ever will. So maybe just do it the way you suggest and be done with it all the same would hate to muck with settings after calibration to maybe ruin the whole listening experience to do a manual setup after audyssey calibration will break the whole setup and in theory I imagine to an extent is very true as audyssey does not know you have raised volumes so how can it ever sound correct that’s what I take away from watching the video.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
No, altering the speaker levels has no effect upon the EQ corrections being carried out by Audyssey.

You need to differentiate the speaker levels, the distances and the bass management from the Audyssey room EQ correction. The room correction relates to the frequency range of 10Hz to 24kHz regardless of the levels associated with each individual speaker. The roll offs of each speaker are also measured, but not in order to set speaker sizes or crssovers which are not settings within Audysseys domain. Again, this isn't anything to do with Audyssey and Audyssey simply measures the roll off to limit where it need address corrections. JUst because the levels are, distances and bass management are done at the same rime doesn't mean it has anything to do with Audyssey room EQ correction.






You can alter the speaker levels, the speaker distances, speaker sizes and the crossovers without it having any effect upon the room EQ corrections carried out by Audyssey.




Audyssey Dymanuc EQ on the other hand …


DEQ is effected by the levels, but I'd not expect chanfing the levels to have any real adverse effect upon what you hear. You'd probably be better off just leaving DEQ turned off anyway?

Note that DEQ isn't room EQ correction either.






Maybe go do some research as to what room EQ correction actually is. You appear to be lumping it in with other elements asspciated with a calibration that it has nothing to do with and that have no effect upon it.
 
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JL12W7

Active Member
Thank you for explaining that so why do these so called av experts state what they did as it makes the waters pretty muddied for lesser mortals like me to fully understand what is correct or not. So thank you dantae01 for your reply I appreciate you taking the time to respond and explain.
 

JL12W7

Active Member
Once you have done the Audyssey calibration you can use an external test disc to set and check the levels.
If I go ahead and download a pink noise test disc and after audyssey calibration how do I go about playing the pink noise through the av amp with Audyssey engaged active to then get an accurate reading of speaker levels with Audyssey engaged. This is what has me stumped how will the av amp turn on Audyssey while I’m playing this pink noise test tone cd in speaker setup to arrive at 75Db. This is the question I would love someone to explain to me how do do just that. As I feel so stupid not knowing how to engage Audyssey while playing the test tone.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
If I go ahead and download a pink noise test disc and after audyssey calibration how do I go about playing the pink noise through the av amp with Audyssey engaged active to then get an accurate reading of speaker levels with Audyssey engaged. This is what has me stumped how will the av amp turn on Audyssey while I’m playing this pink noise test tone cd in speaker setup to arrive at 75Db. This is the question I would love someone to explain to me how do do just that. As I feel so stupid not knowing how to engage Audyssey while playing the test tone.


You can buy discs with discrete multichannel test tones on them. You'd play them in a player like you'd play a Blu-ray disc. You'd set the AV receiver's master volume to 0db and then calibrate each of the speakers so that you'd get a reading of 75db from a SPL meter while you are at your MLP. Audyssey would be engaged has it would have been had you been using the player to play a cpnventional film Blu-ray.

I'm lost as to why you'd be confused by this or why you don't understand that Audyssey would be active if sourcing the test tones via an external source as opposed to you using the AV receiver's own integral test tone generator.



We have provided audio test tones for setting the level and phase of the speakers. These are available for 5.1 and 7.1 audio systems. The audio is available in Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA. We have also included A/V sync tests in Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA. Note that by default, the disc is in 5.1 speaker mode. If you have a 7.1 speaker system, you will need to visit the Setup menu at the bottom of the main menu to change the disc to 7.1 mode. You can also switch between Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA using that menu.

 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
I'd not advise setting speaker distances manually. You'd be better off trusting the measurements the auto calibration arrived at for the distances because the measurements are arrived at by measuring the time it takes the signal to reach the mic. Additional processing can effect this and delay the signal. A tape measure cannot account for these delays:

Distance​

Seriously, how important can this be? You let auto-calibration take care of this for you, or if you’re feeling particularly hands on, you might whip out the tape measure, right? A word of wisdom: don’t underestimate the power of the distance setting in your A/V receiver. Obviously the primary job of the distance setting is setting a delay relative to your other speakers. Note, the distance reported by your receiver’s auto-calibration will be inclusive of any delay caused by signal processing happening inside the subwoofer (EQ, low pass filtering, etc.), which can add several feet to the distance per your tape measure. Above and beyond this, the distance adjustment functions as a phase control of sorts. Adding or subtracting a couple feet from the distance of your subwoofer is a viable way of getting rid of an ugly peak or dip around the crossover point. Again, to make the most out of this tool, one does need the ability to take measurements. Still, who would have ever thought such an innocuous setting could have that kind of power?





THe fact of the matter is that you'd not ordinarilly worry about distances that are actually greater than the physical linear distance, but you should question distances arrived at by any calibration that are actually less than the physical distance.
 

Pulse1

Well-known Member
Although you can raise crossovers from the roll off point it is advised that you don't lower them post Audyssey calibration due to the fact that Audyssey doesn't eq below the roll off point selected by the first meaurement of the calibration.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
I've always verified levels manually after automatic setup. Both of my auto units have been out, the second one has directional microphone so with any speaker that is outside the cone of the mic, levels will be out.

I noticed the six speakers behind me were way too loud after auto setup
 

JL12W7

Active Member
.
You can buy discs with discrete multichannel test tones on them. You'd play them in a player like you'd play a Blu-ray disc. You'd set the AV receiver's master volume to 0db and then calibrate each of the speakers so that you'd get a reading of 75db from a SPL meter while you are at your MLP. Audyssey would be engaged has it would have been had you been using the player to play a cpnventional film Blu-ray.

I'm lost as to why you'd be confused by this or why you don't understand that Audyssey would be active if sourcing the test tones via an external source as opposed to you using the AV receiver's own integral test tone generator.





I just want to make sure I was doing it correctly as I stupidly imagined by playing a test tone through the blu ray player in turn being processed through the AV amp somehow it would not work though I did imagine this is how you would do it. So when you say set the volume to 0 DB on the AV amp I would then go into speaker level on the AV amp and adjust each speaker with the pink noise eminating from the individual speaker, so in turn i calibrate every speaker in my setup, with Audyssey engaged using this method I did not realise Audyssey would be engaged doing it this way hence my confusion. I just needed to read it to make positively sure. You see I have never gone as deep into setting the av receiver before usually I would just run the calibration and be done with it. With knowledge comes great confusion as I am learning things I never really bothered about before hence why I’m asking all these questions. Now it all falls into place. Thank you for assisting me you have been a great help.
 
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JL12W7

Active Member
Thank you all and appreciate all the replies now I know exactly how to calibrate my surround sound.

It all makes sense now in my own head how this all works. Thank you all now I am ready to calibrate my system like never before. Properly this time.
 

JL12W7

Active Member
I downloaded that file and I see a whole lot of files from 20hz to 120hz which one should I use for the 75Db test. I assumed you just download the file and copy it to cd but there are a whole lot of audio files within that download to cover ever spectrum of audio testing.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
I downloaded that file and I see a whole lot of files from 20hz to 120hz which one should I use for the 75Db test. I assumed you just download the file and copy it to cd but there are a whole lot of audio files within that download to cover ever spectrum of audio testing.

I think pink noise for speakers white for sub? Sure someone will chip in

Don't use sine waves
 

JL12W7

Active Member
I think pink noise for speakers white for sub? Sure someone will chip in

Don't use sine waves
They are all pink noise, the ones for the sub are labelled.
 

Dolus

Active Member
I downloaded that file and I see a whole lot of files from 20hz to 120hz which one should I use for the 75Db test. I assumed you just download the file and copy it to cd but there are a whole lot of audio files within that download to cover ever spectrum of audio testing.

They are all pink noise, the ones for the sub are labelled.
I think you answered your own question.:)
 

JL12W7

Active Member
I think you answered your own question.:)
So can you explain an audio file at 20HRZ as opposed to 80 HRZ what would the difference outputting 75 Db or is it all relative.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
So can you explain an audio file at 20HRZ as opposed to 80 HRZ what would the difference outputting 75 Db or is it all relative.

Pink noise is full range signal, you use that to calibtate speakers. There's also brown and white noise I believe one is better for the sub. But try pink noise first.
 

Dolus

Active Member
@rccarguy2
You beat me to it.

Pink noise is broadband over the frequency range and not isolated to a single or narrow frequency band.

I seriously think you will not achieve much with this, but I do things like this sometimes.:confused:

The timestamp at 39.47 is about Audyssey setting the subwoofer too low by (3dB - 6db). I have a Denon and would agree with that so the simple solution is to turn the subwoofer trim level up by 3 - 6dB according to taste.

The Audyssey mic is accurate to +/-2dB, as is the average SPL meter, so if one is 2dB hot and the other 2dB cold then the difference between the 2 is 4dB, so you end up with the trims 4dB higher or lower from the get go, never mind about anything else.

SPL meters are not good at measuring bass as they are designed to measure background environmental noise but were hijacked by the audio community when the only way to set levels was with your ears.

I've used Audyssey for nearly 11 years and never thought that Audyssey set the levels wrong and if it seems that way it is usually more to do with mic placement than anything else.

You may find this interesting, Post 6/27 under Beware: "DEQ and Trim Levels (doing channel level checks)" (I assume Chris is Chris Kyriakakis of Audyssey).

And also another note on the “Channel level” checks, Chris also recommended the use of test tones emitted by the AVR instead of using a test dics (which I have previously recommended)…the reason was the possibility of the difference in dialnorm that a test disc was authored. What I understand is that at ‘0db’ (Reference level), the internal bandwidth limited pink noise emitted will produce a SPL of “75db” at (-30dbfs).

Full thread here:
Everything about Audyssey Calibration that you need to know
 
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JL12W7

Active Member
Thank you for your reply on the subject. So what they were talking about was levelling off the subwoofer and taking into account all that you have said I agree 100% meaning SPL meter accuracy and pink noise test tone all could give different results as opposed to internal pink noise and the Denon Audyssey mic.

So I take away the notion just calibrate using the AV amp and mic and just leave it, I also watched a you tube video where they guy said the same thing but there are a hell of a lot of folks tinkering and setting the levels. Now I am more confused than ever about going this route maybe now I will let the amp work it all out and leave it. But will do no harm to check the levels once Audyssey has run to see the final values.
 

Dolus

Active Member
There is no harm in checking the levels after running Audyssey and is easier using the receivers test tones as opposed to jumping through hoops using external tones.

Of course checking the speaker levels opens the door to going further down the rabbit hole, checking the distances, crossovers and then wondering if it got the phase right and before you know it you have downloaded REW and bought a Umic mic. :)

Setting & checking the levels is an internet thing where if enough people say it then it starts to be true. If Audyssey really cannot set the levels correctly then how can we be sure it will get anything else right. I tend to take the view that the people who designed and engineered Audyssey have forgotten more about sound than I will ever know.

The one thing we do know more about is our own room. The more you use Audyssey the more you learn about how small changes can make big differences. Trying lots of different mic patterns until you find the few that seem to work best in your room, adjusting seating/speaker placement, orientation can improve things too.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I'd only suggest anyone start trying to manually calibrate any modern day AVR if they've access to analytical software such as REW and a good quality USB mic. I'd add that I'd strongly advise not engaging upon such an endeavour unless you understand what REW is and how to interpret the measurements it takes.


I'd also suggest you not then continually post graphs here on the forum for the next 10 years asking other people what they think :)



For most, simply running and then using the supplied auto calibration mic and integral calibration should system be fine. Yes, by all means tweak the results if required, but do not make a career of it. Life is just too short and you bought the AV receiver to listen to soundtracks, not as an excuse to twiddle knobs.
 

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