Rear speaker positioning

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by nunew33, Jun 14, 2002.

  1. nunew33

    nunew33
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    I have a room approx 3.5 x 4.5 and Mission cinema 7 (773e, 77DS and 77C), height 2.5 metres

    Assuming North and south walls are 4.5
    West/East is 3.5

    West wall is viewing wall. telly in centre so Left right and centre easily positioned

    East wall has chimney stack in middle approx 2m wide with 1m on south side and .5 on North

    South wall has large tall window in middle taht touches ceiling.
    North wall has door in middle and radiator to east side of door

    Seating is L shaped sofa against South and east walls

    If you followed the guidelines there are two places to put the speakers either on east wall or north and south walls wither side of the sofa.

    Now that I have set the scene here are the questions (assuming you havent fallen asleep)

    If I place the rear speakers either side of the chimney stack on east wall will the stack spoil the sound (about .4 in depth)

    If I place the rear speakers on the stack will the fact that they will be close in proximity relative to the room width mean that the rear left/right separation will be ineffective (especially as it will be possible to sit to the left or right of both speakers

    If I place the speakers to the North and south walls will the radiator have a detrtimental effect on the speaker (assuming speaker is 1m above radiator.

    Given this set up what recommendations can people give me.
     
  2. nunew33

    nunew33
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    No replies?

    Ok simplify the question, will I ruin the Mission 77DS speakers by placing them 1 metre above a radiator?
     
  3. RichardH

    RichardH
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    The M77DSs should be about 3-4 feet above ear level - in fact I have my M7DS mounted hard up against the ceiling, upside dowsn (if you look on the back of them, you will see the screw lugs allow for this). This might be a good solution for you, as it will increase the sound spread.

    Tricky with that chimney breast - do I assume that the L shaped sofa is tucked in to the 1m recess on the E wall, and that most of the sofa runs along the S wall to the window?

    I would mount them on the N & S walls, about 0.5 - 1m away from the E wall. I have a slightly less problematic layout that involves a fireplace - have a look here for some info and photos of how the M7DSs are mounted.


    You'll see that we have a similar problem in that the sofas run along the side walls - sound is fine though - although I am still considering moving the rears a bit further forward, as the rear info can be a bit seperated from the rest when you're sitting towards the TV.
    HTH!
     
  4. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Thanks for the reply.

    Room layout similar toyours Lshaped sofa is infront of chimney breast, the sapace either side of chimney is wasted space (will become video/DVD shelving).

    I kind of agree that N & S walls are best but just concerned about radiator. Will try placing speakers hard up against ceiling as this should ensure less damage from the radiator
     
  5. DEO

    DEO
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    Sorry Guys but can you really place the speakers that high up. I have a similar arkward but perhaps smaller room (11'*11') and I was going to use the Mission FS2 or Denon Flat speakers because believe you me their is no space in my room.

    With those black Missions up against the ceiling like that, well what about all that stuff about having speakers positioned just right, 2 feet away from the wall etc.

    What do you think of FS2s compared to what you have
     
  6. RichardH

    RichardH
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    The advice about speakers being positioned 2 feet away from a wall is generally for floorstanders and stand mounted speakers, particularly those which are ported. The Mission DS range are designed to be hard against the wall, and they even come with mounting lugs to so you can whack some screws into the wall and drop the speakers on to them. They are also designed to be mounted up against the ceiling, should you wish to. The ceiling will refect the sound down and around the rear soundstage.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the radiator - I'd have thought as long as you're at least a fre feet above, the heat will have dispersed enough to not cause a problem.

    Mission FS2s are meant to be very good - the Denon ones are made by Mission, but are apparently NOT the same - not as good. Try here for a good price for the full set. They also do the 2 pack (plus sub) for about £303.
    I've never heard the FS2s, but I'm sure they'd give my setup a run for it's money - the whole sound will, from what I understand, be much less directional - including the fronts. For a cheaper alternative, you could try the Wharfedale NXT panels - can get a pair + sub for around £99 or less.
     
  7. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Attached is room layout if it helps.
     

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  8. RichardH

    RichardH
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    I'd put the rears about by the "Rad" in radiator. Nice diagram!
     
  9. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Its microsoft visio 2002. Close inspection will show that the speakers are in fact "office storage units"! and the TV is a stretched VDU. Still waiting to find a use for the Visio crime scene add on!!!

    Thanks for the advice one and all. Ill go for the above tha radiator position and will also put a shelf over tha radiator with a reflective sheet of metal underneath to force the dispersion of heat.
     
  10. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Now done and tested and very happy with results (rear speakers at sides). See iagram in previous post

    One last question.
    The ideal sitting oposition is on the section of Sofa against the chimney breast.

    The amp is capable of 6.1 so I have the option of a rear centre. If I was to match the front centre then I would be using a Mission 77C.

    But its directional and being above the viewing position the sound would be "aimed" over the listener.

    In this set up how do I set up the rear speaker so that the sound is spread behind the listener even though their backs are "to the wall". In thios set up would the problem of locating a rear centre negate any benefits it would bring?
     
  11. RichardH

    RichardH
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    Might be a bit tricky - as I understand it, a rear centre should be a metre or so behind the position of the "normal" surrounds. I'd consider another M77DS as a rear centre, as it will diffuse the sound around. I know the're only available in pairs, but at £99 from Richer Sounds it's excellent value. You might find someone in the same position as you willing to split a pair.
    I'll be using M77DS for my rear surrounds, but I'm intending to use a pair rather than a single one.
     
  12. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Oh dear.

    I have The Marantz SR5200. I did wonder about the 77DS but its the meter behind thatll be the problem..

    Im sure that there is a way to emulate the distance by a delay (I assume a longer delay is equivelent to an effective position further away) . But this is tricky to todo on the SR 5200 as it works on room dimensions rather than delays. Havent figured out yet how room dimensions work into delays (can anyone enlighten me?).

    What about using a pair of 77DS, one in each alcove, or will that be too messy effectively dissipating what should be a specific sound point? If I put it on the wall even with a delay will the sound effectively be projected in front even with the 77DS?


    I know they are imperfect mad but would possible solutions be:
    Use of speaker cubes that are small enough to be behind the listener (or would these be too out of balance in a Mission 7 setup)

    Or a floor based speaker beind the sofa (or would this once again spoil panning with 77DS's that are positioned 2m off the ground to each side of the listener.

    I assume that if you are using a pair you have a 7.1 amp. Is it possible to wire two speakers to one set of binding posts on the amp or would I need to get a stereo amp and feed off the preout (whcih seems like a lot of hassle to get a single channel of sound in what isnt an ideal room layout!)
     
  13. RichardH

    RichardH
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    Floor speaker behind sofa firing upwards might well be worth a pop - have you any other speakers in the house? Why not lash it in temporarily and see? The firing up should help spread the sound about a bit, too.
    If you want to use a pair of speakers from 1 channel of amplification, you can do it - I'm sure there are threads here on the way to wire it.
     

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