Real Value European PowerAmps & Processors ?

Sam Ash

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I'm wondering whether there is a UK or European manufacturer of Power-Amps, Processors and possibly Integrated Amps that do high performance but reasonably priced gear similar to Emotiva or Outlaw in the USA ?
 
Thanks T Bone - Music Fidelity products seem very good but no sign of home theatre processors and power-amps.
 
On the contrary musical fidelity are well known for their power amps / pre amps I have one myself check out their website.
 
Hmm, I thought Musical Fidelity wasn't priced that competitively.

I woudl have thought XTZ fits that bill more.
 
Thanks guys, really nice of you. I have checked both products and they both seem nice. What I like about the XTZ power-amps is that they have 2 XLR inputs which I prefer when integrating a processor. However, it is important to understand that I am looking for a pre/pro and power/amp for home theatre use which then also becomes my music listening system. The only downside being that I would have to buy 4 stereo power-amps to run a 7.X home theatre configuration and one channel would be left over or unused. Unfortunately neither of the 2 companies in question manufacture home theatre processors but I guess one could use any reputable processor e.g. Integra, Marantz or for that matter Emotiva. It seems there is no company in Europe that manufactures high-performance processors and power-amps like Emotiva in the USA.
 
Not quite in that price bracket as emo. But you could look at Audiolab.

Tbh, pre/pros' development cycles aee so long. Ure better off looking at a receiver wuth preouts. Outgoing models can be picked up for a song
 
Thanks Lokyc - Just had a look at Audiolab, have you experienced these babies in action ? I like the fact that, like Emo, their portfolio of products includes a 7 channel power-amp and a processor unit. The only caveat being that their rating per channel sits at 100w at 8 Ohms, I presume that is all channels driven. I wonder what that would come to for 4 Ohms, I guess about 150w. For higher ratings, I'd still have to resort to a stack of stereo power-amps. One thing that I noticed about their processor is that it does not support DTHD and DTSMHD, it relies on the source device to do that. Furthermore it only provides 1 HDMI out.

I like your idea of looking at a receiver with preouts - any suggestions ? Any in your experience that do a great job with sound ? I do prefer XLR over RCA as XLR enables a solid connection but I guess one could live with RCA.
 
Mate, it all boils down to budget, features, listening preference, personal taste and looks/space/WAF.

Good phono plugs are very tight and secure as well. Although you're right, XLR connections tend to have a clip lock. But not always.

There are very few pre/pros at the budget end. As i said, they tend to be more outdated. You are likely to have more bugs. A mass market, uptodate Japanese receiver will be the most hassle free.

The audiolab power amp is ok, but i is nothing special. In that price range there is Rotel or ATI. Emotiva XPA range is good value as well. All output much more power than the audiolab can only dream of. For a standard Class A/B amp, the weight of the amp, which is mainnly due to the transformer, gives it away.

But you did ask about European.
 
That Audiolab x7 is probably the most affordable 7 channel amp available, I would like to see how it performs with all 4 ohm load ie a M&K system.

A upgrade over a AV amp for sure, but tbh I'd save up a bit more for a higher quality unit, or a 5 channel or something.

The 7 channel ATI 1807 is about £2300. However it has double the power, and two power supplies, rather than just one. I had one for a while, but changed it to a ATI 2003.
 
PS. in addition are you asking about amplifiers manufactured in Europe, or sold by European companies? And at what point does a company count as European... Audiolab still have their headquarters (and design facilities) in Cambridge (iirc) but they are whole owned by a Chineese company. Equally Arcam are now owned by (I think) Canadians.

On the other hand you are talking about Emotiva and Outlaw who (excepting a few new Emotiva pieces) manufacture in China ... as do companies such as Classe now.

And on a third hand ... Roksan offer power amplifiers from around £600 (2 channel) and Exposure offer the 2010 for similar cost both UK companies and built in UK (iirc). Then of course if you have a bit of a DIY persuasion Hypex are a Dutch company.
 
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"Mate, it all boils down to budget, features, listening preference, personal taste and looks/space/WAF."

Yup. Does he want a single box? Or several boxes? New or second hand? Power output? Budget? Balanced or unbalanced? How many channels? Maybe a 3, then use a AV amp for the rest. 5 or 7 channel, what about atmos? If you're lucky you could get 4 x 2 channel amps for something like £800 in total, and would be superior to a single 6 channel that has a shared power supply.

Also if you intend to upgrade speakers then it may be worthwhile spending a bit more, a good amp will last a decade, at least.
 
Lokyc, Stephen and Sounddog - I must say, you guys are seasoned when it comes to amps. Thank you so much for your input. The reason why I mentioned Europe is that at times its much easier buying gear within Europe than source it all the way from the USA and pay extra for shipping and logistics.

Stephen, ATI seems like a very interesting product. Is it in the same league as the XPA or XPR series by Emotiva ? or is it better in terms of overall music/movie fidelity and performance ?
 
That question is probably best asked on american avs site. What I've read is it's better than XPA series.

Reason why I went for ATI is multiple amp channel configuration, choose from 2,3,4,5,6,7. Also wanted a step up from multiple Audiolab 2 channel amps, I didn't want a multi-channel amp that would be a downgrade (ie Audiolab X7)

ATI make Outlaws 200W XLR model amp, also for Lexicon RZ-7 is ATI 3007, a few other brands I believe are made by ATI. Also the ATI is fully balanced, the Emotiva XPA aren't. Also Emotiva lacks a XPA-4, so for myself a 3+4, rather than just a 7. Since I listen to a bit of music I didn't want the remaning amps on for hours at a time. Also the 3 channel runs cooler than the 7, the 1807 got pretty hot even though I wasn't driving it that hard. 3 channel runs cool.

Also for Emotiva that means buying from the states- import tax, duty etc, and cost returning it.

Not saying my experience with ATI and lsound is perfect, but at least it's closer, no vat, and it was sent back (bit of arguing about that with retailer though)
 
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There is a bit of discussion on avs recently about cross talk on a 7 channel amp and how that is the spec ati do not quote. One to breast in mind perhaps.
 
I guess, suppose modules physically close to each other in 7 channel amps, if that is what crosstalk is? For the 3, or a 4 when I get it, each module is several inches away.
 
Morris Kessler went into some detail regarding crosstalk in the Widescreen Magazine interview.

ATI encountered early on when they were designing multichannel amps. The main sources of crosstalk were the wires passing so close to each other. Hence they developed modules which plug in. All the wiring and signal paths are in the modules themselves with minimal amount of free wiring.

I doubt it is a significant issue.

Given all their amps follow the same architecture, I would expect the crosstalk to be the same across the 180x, 2/300x range which was designed around the same time.

@Sam Ash ATI are OEM for Krell, Mark Levinson, McKintosh amongst those already mentioned. Morris Kessler is a highly respected name in the business.

The ATI amps are the base which all those expensive ones derive from. They are generally neutral and utilise passive cooling which is Kessler's preference. They are a step above Emotiva.

I had the Emotiva XPR-5. I have not had the chance to lay my hands on the XPA series, but I can vouch the XPR5 is every bit as well-built as the ATI 6005 I now have.

For sheer power and headroom, the Emo is unbeatable value for money and will probably give the 180x series a run for its money.
 
Wow! what can I say guys except that this has been super informative for me.

Stephen/Lokyc - I did not know that some of the gear made by Outlaw, Lexicon, Krell, Mark Levinson and McKintosh have ATI engines. Just read about Morris Kessler, very interesting.

Stephen - You mentioned that the ATI amps are fully balanced. Ok, I really had to wrap my head around that concept and I think I have a good overall idea now about the benefits of a fully balanced amp. The topic almost demands enrolment in an electronics engineering doctorate programme.

Lokyc - You're using an ATI 6005 !!! That is serious power, what is that amp driving ! ?

Guys, one other thing that I'd like to know is what processors or receivers with pre outs are you using to get the best out of your power-amps ?
 
I'm using a Lexicon MC-8. Not the balanced version but hopefully next upgrade will be a av pre fully balanced...if it doesn't cost as much as a house.

The ATI 2,3,6 series are fully balanced, the 1 aren't
 
I was actually looking at the ATI AT1805 - You're right Stephen, it has no balanced XLR interfaces at the back. There is quite a price difference between the 1805 and 2005. Does having a balanced power-amp make a significant difference in real world performance terms ?
 
Not sure. Probably not unless it does something internally.

yeah 18 to 20 is a huge jump about £800 each I think.

could be me but the 2003 runs tons cooler than the 1807 did. Granted the 1807 modules are closer together but I don't think it would be effected that much. Even when playing 2 channel CD's the 1807 was getting darn warm, too hot considering the size of the room.

If lsound didn't mess around with my refund, I'd have got the 1803 and 1804, rather than the 2003 and 2004 which is gonna cost far more.
 
Thanks for the useful info Stephen. Based on what you've said, the 2005 might be the better option but the difference in price is an issue.

As far as I understand, a balanced system helps to reduce noise arising from electrical or interconnection interference. I'm really not sure about real world differences between balanced and unbalanced systems.
 
In fact, I think Emotiva have improved their 2nd generation XPA range which I believe are fully balanced systems. I assume they've done it because it is important and provides credible benefit.
 
"believe are fully balanced systems"

I don't believe they are, they're quasi balanced

This is fully balanced

Emotiva
Emotiva

But XPA2-7 aren't. Aslo the XMC-1 is only fully balanced on L/R
 
Thanks Stephen, that is interesting. I guess I have to be careful when reading marketing material.

I've noticed that Marantz processors have a good reputation and are often teamed up with high end power-amps. Do you have any experience with Marantz ?
 

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