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real power

johnboy1280

Standard Member
Hi can anyone help i currently own a setup with samsung bd-p1500, Pioneer vsx 2016 av-s and a pioneer pdp 5008d plasma with pioneer s-v810a 5.1 speaker set. I am about to upgrade to rather an pioneer lx60 or lx51 recicver but the differences are confusing me. My current set is 150watts per channel were the new lx60 is 180watts or lx51 the same at 150 watts per channel as my vsx 2016. After hearing about power ratings that They are all 7 channels at 150 watt, But the power consumption on all three are the same at around 450 watts does this mean that this would be the maximun power that any of these recicevers could output ie only 3 channels at 150 watts. what would be the point in getting the lx60 as it is a total lie of 180 watts per channel as it still only uses the same power as the lx51. I am stumped can anyone help???:lease:



Also if these rateing are all crap is it best to monoblock or pre amps to help make up the power for th system?
 
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Phlog

Active Member
Are you only intending to change amplifiers according to the manufacturer's claimed power outputs?

If so, it's foolish. Many specs just inaccurate; others are so hedged about with conditions as to be meaningless. The only reliable test is to go and listen.

In passing, my understanding is that very few AV amplifiers can output their their stated powers through all channels simultaneously, they just don't have the necessary power supplies. I think you would be deafened if they did ...
 
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kbfern

Distinguished Member
The watts the amplifier uses from the power supply is different to the output power (watts)the amp pushes out to the speakers.The transformer is what determines the output watts,watts in does not exactly equate to watts out.

This is why some amps are much heavier than others in that the power supply(transformer) is a much beefier unit to supply the high transient power requirements.
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
The watts the amplifier uses from the power supply is different to the output power (watts)the amp pushes out to the speakers.The transformer is what determines the output watts,watts in does not exactly equate to watts out.

Whilst some of what you say is correct, the maximum power consumption of an amplifier will still ultimately affect the maximum continuous power output of it. An amplifier with a maximum power consumption of 500 watts will never be able to continuously output much more than about 400 watts at best ( based on the amplifier being a very generous 80% efficient).

The transformer and capacitors will allow brief transient power surges at much higher wattages but they cannot fundamentally overcome the limits of the main power supply.

In the case of the Pioneer amps the OP is looking at, with a power consumption of about 450 watts it is likely to be able to produces a continuous total of about 360 watts to all channels, or about 50 watts to each channel with all channels drive across the frequency range 20Hz-20kHz.

A lot of manufacturers fiddle their power ratings by quoting the power output with only one channel drive and quite often at only one particualr frequency. They then quote this figure for all the channels.

A good example of a manufacturer that is very honest about its power ratings is Arcam. The AVR350 is rated at 100 watts per channel with all channel driven which totals about 700 watts. The power supply on the AVR350 has a maximum power consumption of approximately 1200 watts.

In short, take what most manufacturers quote with a great big pinch of salt until you are sure exactly how they are measuring their figures.
 

johnboy1280

Standard Member
thank you everyone there was a help as main main concern was that my speakers were very under-powered but have the idea now of what is being said
 

dingwall

Banned
In short, take what most manufacturers quote with a great big pinch of salt until you are sure exactly how they are measuring their figures.

The same applies for "power consumption" - unless this is specified as "full power", "maximum" or "peak", it tells you nothing about the maximum output power of the amplifier.

Pink noise averaging 1/8th or 1/3th rated power into the rated impedance load are standard conditions for measuring power consumption. Efficient amps, such as switching amps, therefore can and some indeed do have a higher "power rating" than "power consumption" without any fiddling of figures.

The Pioneer's are switching designs, with power consumption specified "in use" - their specs for power output and consumption are not dishonest and look perfectly fine.

Trying to gauge or rubbish an amp's power output by reading the "power consumption" is a trick used by dodgy salesmen, or people who aren't as clever as they think they are.
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
AV Receivers with digital switching amp are currently the exception rather than the norm.

My main point I was trying to get across is that manufaturer's quite often use different methods for measuring their power output and that further investigation is usually required in order to fairly compared different models and brands in this respect.

I am a stockist for the Pioneer SC-LX90 and am well aware of its power output capbilities and it's rated power consumption. it is a very impressive bit of kit indeed.
 

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