real bass

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by tahirti3, Nov 9, 2002.

  1. tahirti3

    tahirti3
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    anyone interested in trying my active sub-woofer?500watts of rel eating power! london area.my sub will show you what sub-bass should be like.did you know that the speaker in a £2000 sub probably costs no more than £100! my speaker costs £500 and will not bottom out at all.
     
  2. pointon

    pointon
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    Exactly 14 seconds of my life that I will never get back.
     
  3. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Only 500W? :rolleyes:
     
  4. rob_w

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    post the specs/details of the build and people may show more interest....

    I'm assuming you've got yourself a focal audiom / big volt type driver going....


    Rob
     
  5. DodgeTheViper

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    One of the most unusual posts i have ever seen !!!

    Kev
     
  6. uncle eric

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    Thanks for the offer. I think one of these got stuck in Godzilla's teeth the other day. I'll get him to floss more often :D
     
  7. rob_w

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    ""Thanks for the offer. I think one of these got stuck in Godzilla's teeth the other day. I'll get him to floss more often ""

    OOhh come on guy's, this bloke could be serious and have built something rather tasty. A £500 driver (focal audiom 11wx - £448)

    see here: http://www.falcon-acoustics.co.uk/pl28p11.htm for prices, here http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/compo/woofer/a_11wx.htm for specs

    or a volt rv4504 (£319 +vat) here for prices :

    https://secure.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/acatalog/Wilmslow_Audio_Volt_Drive_Units_22.html

    and here for spec:

    http://www.voltloudspeakers.co.uk/L...4504_-_Pro_Range/body_rv4504_-_pro_range.html

    with a nice quality big amp could produce some lovely results...

    I'm pretty sure REL use volt drivers themselves.

    come on , tahirti3 , let us know what you've got thats so special?

    Rob
     
  8. uncle eric

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    Zzzzzzzzzzzz
     
  9. MikeK

    MikeK
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    Perhaps he should be allowed to elaborate before being so quickly dismissed.


    Whether or not the claim re: £2000 subwoofers is strictly accurate I couldn't say as no details were provided, (it certainly isn't true of REL's dearer models - they use Volt drivers, which are around £250-£300 each), but it's certainly true that many commercial subwoofers (and not just budget models) are made from cheap parts, which you can often obtain yourself.
    One example is the REL Q150, which AFAIK, uses an Audax driver (HT240G0) - available for $53 in the US (£35).
    Fair enough, shipping and VAT would add to that if you couldn't source one in the UK, but better drivers are available, even here, for reasonable money.
    Our cousins in the US woke up to these facts years ago, and have a thriving DIY subwoofer community.
    They may not all be good subwoofers at the end of the day, fair enough, but just because they are home made, doesn't mean they often aren't as good as commercial units - for the same money they are often far superior, and if you pick a particular commercial design, you can often match it's performance for far less money. Many design issues for commercial units are made on the basis of production cost - if you take a typical cabinet, it's not that difficult or expensive to construct something far superior - on a one off run, you really aren't that bothered that it takes two man days to construct - however, this would be economic suicide for a commercial design, even if their superior tooling could cut that time in half.
    If you are on the lookout for a bargain £100 unit, then it's probably not worth it - even DIY has it's limits, and it's unlikely you could source the parts for that. However, if you are looking at a £300+ unit, then it's game on.
    For someone starting out, they could probably do a lot worse IMO than simply copying the Titanic10 subwoofer, designed by Vance Dickason for PartsExpress. You could order the kit directly of course, but shipping the enclosure half way round the world would add to the cost considerably. Personally I'd do a 12"version though! (not pushing that particular model BTW - it's just one example of many)

    Matching something like Eric's HGS18 may not be easy though - access to the type of materials necessary (accelerometer servo drivers for one) would be the major problem. That said, I'm sure there are some advanced subwoofer DIYers who would take on the challenge :). Also don't forget that the HGS18 is over £2000 as well (which is fine if you can afford it/are prepared to pay that much)
    One thing though (and this is perhaps one of the big "mistakes" which one might make going DIY) - IMO you'll be extremely unlikely to get this level of performance from a 12" driver and a 200W amp in a little box, all for £300, no matter how good a design you use, and no matter how good the driver/amp are - the laws of physics will most probably see to that.
    In other words, while I am saying that you can often get better performance for less money by going DIY, there are limits - you have to be realistic as well.

    I accept that DIY may not be for everybody - certain basic skills are req'd, and if you want a furniture grade finish, then that's a fairly advanced skill. All I'm saying is that for someone who is looking to get maximum performance for their money, who also has reasonable basic DIY skills, then building your own subwoofer should not be dismissed so readily IMO - it's really not that hard. It's not as easy as just making a box which happens to fit a space and then just slapping any old big driver in either, but there's plenty of information available to help, often from the manufacturers themselves.


    A few links (out of many available) which a budding DIYer may find useful (although you can find these fairly easily anyway with a search engine)

    www.wilmslowaudio.co.uk
    www.iplacoustics.co.uk
    www.partsexpress.com
    www.cpc.co.uk
    www.diysubwoofers.org
    www.bkelec.com
    www.adireaudio.com
     
  10. cybersoga

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    My local Sevenoaks have a B&W sub that has a 700watt amp ex demo for £650 (was £1000), I went for the Rel Q150 in the end because of it's compact size and the fact I don't need such a powerful sub, it still goes down to 19hz which is 1 more than dolby digital even outputs so i'm happy. Oh and it's not just the driver, it's what you do with it (enclosure, amp, crossover etc) that makes a good sub.
     
  11. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I do like a "Mine's bigger than yours" thread. It is so grown up :D
     
  12. Charlie Whitehouse

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    That's actually a popular misconception. The Dolby Digital specs for the LFE channel include a frequency response of 3-120Hz. The main channels have a frequency response of 3Hz to 20kHz as well. Some DVD's (such as U571) do have bass down to 5Hz and below.
     
  13. MikeK

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    I didn't suggest the REL Q150 was bad - I simply stated that it uses a cheap driver AFAIK, certainly in relation to it's rrp of £500.

    I would expect that some owners are not exactly over the moon to discover this (unless you need a new driver of course :) ) - but REL are certainly not the only company to do something similar.
    Perhaps it's not a HT240G0 after all, but it certainly looks like one to me.

    As for it not just being the driver, that's certainly true - but if the driver itself isn't that great to start with, then the final product can never be that great either.

    I've heard the Q150 - IMO it's not as bad as I've heard others describe it, in fact I think it's perfectly listenable - it's small size is a bonus too for many as well I guess. I'm sure many owners are more than happy with it.
    However, that doesn't mean that you can't make a subwoofer which is better for less money (certainly for HC use) - IMO you can, quite easily!
     
  14. BK Electronics

    BK Electronics
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    Now I didn't know that, I thought that the idea was to spend £1000 pounds on the cabinet £1000 pound on the drive unit get the shop to make no money on selling it, pay the VAT yourself and lose money on the product.

    Blimey are we all supposed to be idiots, first we are sheep now we are complete idiots. Of course the drive units are inexpensive less than £100 pounds, the rest of the money goes on Rent, Emc, Lvd, Wages, Council Tax, Development, Advertizing, Aftersales services, and many more things I cant think of, then 50% at least goes to the dealer.
     
  15. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Although I wouldn't put it quite as strong as that - and would substitude HGS18 for "velodyne".....that it what it sometimes feels like on this forum!

    Interesting discussion on the gallos in the other thread.
     
  16. rob_w

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    It's a shame, people were quite forgiving towards new members back when I registered, but since the delphi thing it hasn't been too kind.

    btw sorry if I bored you Uncle Eric. I had hoped that I had put in a constructive post.:(


    Rob
     
  17. tahirti3

    tahirti3
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    my sub uses an extreme excursion 15in. driver,which is also very efficient,so 500watts is plenty.the enclosure is about 1.5 cu.ft. and weighs about 50kg.
    i'll tell you a little about my system to help you decide if i may be a reasonable judge of bass.i have 2 rel stentors,a meridian 565,562v and 508.24.as well as the rest of the system which is too big to mention.the stentors are good but bottom out too easily.the drivers are good but not good enough.they are only about £100 to the trade.what good is extension to 12hz if output levels are not adequate [email protected]
    my diy sub is very good.i am working on smaller enclosures with 12 and 10 drivers that will still be good for 10 hz approx at sick volume levels.the truth is that the speaker manufacturers are making nice profits from the business.but this does not mean they are good at what they do,just clever selling,lots of sleeping with magazine reviewers and don't forget advertising.
     
  18. tahirti3

    tahirti3
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    i didn't say anyone was an idiot,i was saying that the quality of drive units used in some quite expensive subs are not good enough.we all know about wages and bills etc etc.
     
  19. Steve Thornes

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    Interesting. Which ones then.
    Or is it a secret.
     
  20. tahirti3

    tahirti3
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    no secret,open up any rel sub,and compare the drive unit with a top end unit from many other brands.
     
  21. banners

    banners
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    How about you give a few tips to us all in the diy section then!;)

    cheers steve
     
  22. Inukjuak

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    Your 'aving a laugh mate, you've been reading too many comics. LOL :D

    I know what you've done, you have bought a Velodyne and de-badged it. ;)
     
  23. uncle eric

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    Sorry if I offended you Rob, just pulling your leg. Unfortunately, it looks like our "new member" is pulling everyones leg :D
    No offense Tahirti.
     
  24. tahirti3

    tahirti3
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    who are these veloboys that you are going on about.it seems that most of you think that they are miracle workers,and nobody else can do the bass thing.
    rel say their subs can go down to below 10hz on one of their models,are they pulling legs.i say it about mine and some of you think i am dreaming.dismiss my words only after you have heard one of my subs.
     
  25. MikeK

    MikeK
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    What's the driver you used?
     
  26. bob007

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    "If you build it, they will come" :rolleyes:
     
  27. SOUNDSTYLE

    SOUNDSTYLE
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    Does anyone know how much the driver in the Velodyne CHT-15 costs?
    Just wondering.
     
  28. James45

    James45
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    59p inc P&P:rolleyes: (venting annoyannce, that's not an actual figure)

    this thread is getting tired and I agree that the line between cautious and rude is now frequently being breached on the forum. Newbies making brash, bold and silly claims is nothing new so some slack is needed I think. Also think a sticky regarding the search function (or perhaps just a bigger search button :eek: ) might cut down on the number of recycled posts.

    In the words of one Rodney King "Can't we just all get along"

    PS and no that's not an excuse to start a race riot and trash LA:D
     
  29. rob_w

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    Not offended, Uncle Eric .

    Still want to know the driver he's using, or at least its x-max? - then we can calculate how much air this thing will move on full chat.

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  30. tahirti3

    tahirti3
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    the driver is a 15 incher,with 27mm x-max.power handling is quoted by manufacturer as 1500 watts rms per voice coil.amazing also what a bit of added mass can do.
    the enclosure for this driver is approx. 2 cuft.
     

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