RCA cable connection question?

DellRay

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Greetings, I want to connect 2 receivers together for a remote set-up in another room. I have the basics as far as connections and setting up the receivers once they are connected but I couldn't find info on this. Can I use a Y cable at each receiver and run a single RCA cable for the distance as it is going to be about a 75' run. I'm not trying to do anything crazy with the remote receiver, just a 2.1 or 3.1 for stereo plus a subwoofer in the other area. Thanks for any input on this.
 
Solution
OK, it sounds like you are further down the path than I thought you were.

I would still suggest you run a pair balanced cables as the link between the AVRs. If it has line out, that's perfect. Is it a Record output? If so, it will be fixed line level, but it it's a pre-out, you will need to mute the speakers in the other room in order to turn the amp up loud enough to send a strong signal through the Pre-amp outputs. Zone 2 will be separately controlled and will give the best option in terms of control and routing sources.

You could run balanced cables and just fit RCA connectors to start off with and see if it works OK. If so, happy days, nothing more to do, but if not, you can use the suggestion below:

You don't need to spend a...
Maybe the reason you can't find any info on it is because no one has ever tried to connect up 2 receivers with a 75 ft single rca and Y connectors. Do you realize that this will make it mono and the losses in the audio signal you'll get over that distance will be terrible.
Maybe if you try to explain in more detail what you are trying to actually achieve and with what you may find more suitable answers.
 
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That's why I was asking. Just trying to save a little cash is all. I just want what I'm playing on my main AVR to be heard in another room. I listen to music a lot more than I watch TV and I can't hear it very good in my work area. I have another receiver and speakers in there but unless I'm listening to AM/FM radio stations, which I tend to avoid, I can't listen to my source of choice in both areas. I listen to Spotify on whatever device I'm using at the time, I have a few CDs and some vinyl records. As it is now, if I turn the main receiver up loud enough so it sounds good in the other room, The neighbors would probably have me visited by the authorities.
 
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RCA unbalanced cables should not be used over more than a few metres. 75' is really pushing it and as well as induced noise, you may also get a ground loop and the associated hum.

You might do better with either running speaker cables from your existing AVR to 2nd location and then using a remote extender so that you can control the amplifier remotely, or using some balancing and isolating baluns to create a balanced signal path for the majority of the run.

I assume you are using a zone output from the 1st amplifier? You may find you need to set the volume for this quite high to get a good signal at the other end, as the 2nd AVR will be expecting a line level signal, not an attenuated one.

You would be better not to split all the input signals, as this can induce more noise. Phono signals from a record deck will be too low level in any case and will sound terrible over that sort of distance.
 
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OK, I am not sure what you are saying about running speaker wires and a remote extender? The speaker wires would go from my main AVR to? The speakers in the other room? And then what would the remote extender do? I'm not even sure what that is, I will look into it. I was looking at a secondary amplifier with a 2.1 set up but my main AVR only axxepts bluetooth, it doesn't transmit eg; to the remote amp and I can't find a remote amp within a reasonable price range for my current A/V budget that has network capability as I figured 2 receivers would suffice so I spent all the money I could for this on more and better speakers. Also my second receiver does not have network capability which would make this quite easy. Also, I have all the speaker outputs on the main receiver in use for the speakers in the main room. I can drop my impedance on the receiver and run parallel but would rather avoid doing so.
I didn't even consider the zone 2 option as I was just going to use a set of the regular line out RCAs from the main AVR to the remote using the CD line in as I won't be using another disk player on that unit. I did purchase a second turntable for that room though so that's not an issue. If I'm playing records while in there, I want to be able to change them right there without walking back to the living room. and I can just switch the input over on the remote receiver.
Balancing and isolating baluns just sounds expensive and that's probably another learning experience. That's not a bad thing but I'm already involved in a bunch of learning experiences as I am also upgrading the sound system in my car, which is a totally different animal than what I am used to. I'm also doing computer upgrades and trying to work and maintain my sanity all at once. I know, it's a lot but it's keeping me occupied so that I am not grinding about the current state of affairs with the madness out there. I will refrain from comment on any of that except to say that if I spend any time paying attention to it, I probably won't be a free man much longer, and that's if they could take me alive.
 
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OK, it sounds like you are further down the path than I thought you were.

I would still suggest you run a pair balanced cables as the link between the AVRs. If it has line out, that's perfect. Is it a Record output? If so, it will be fixed line level, but it it's a pre-out, you will need to mute the speakers in the other room in order to turn the amp up loud enough to send a strong signal through the Pre-amp outputs. Zone 2 will be separately controlled and will give the best option in terms of control and routing sources.

You could run balanced cables and just fit RCA connectors to start off with and see if it works OK. If so, happy days, nothing more to do, but if not, you can use the suggestion below:

You don't need to spend a fortune on the balancing equipment. 2 of these - 1 of each end will do the job.

Amazon product ASIN B0039OVVC0
You would need to either adapt the cable or solder your own connectors, but this is easy enough to do.
 
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Solution
The line out on the main AVR is just a Line Out, it doesn't have a tape loop. Most modern AVRs don't because not many people still use cassettes. That I have no issue with but they also stopped putting phono inputs in them for us vinyl lovers so we either have to get a record player with a built in switchable pre-amp or buy a separate one and find an input that we aren't using. I can rename and re-assign mine but I can't change what it says on the buttons on the AVR or the remote for it, it will say "phono" on the display and on the OSD but no proper input selector on the equipment. No biggie but still an issue as many people that want record players these days don't know this stuff and then they immediately go and leave negative reviews for perfectly good equipment because they don't have a clue about how to hook it up.
I like your idea and I already have some long cables with 1/4" audio jacks for my Bass(s) and guitars and I have adapters that go from 1/4" jacks to RCA as well as some midi cables and adapters. I hook my little drum machine up to the stereo sometimes as a "metronome" of sorts when working on keeping time. I'm sure I can make something work now. There's a local music shop about 2 blocks away too if I need anything else. You are right about those DIBs too, I can scrape up enough for a couple of those. That guy down the street might even have something like that right in his store.
I like it, I didn't put 2 and 2 together there so thanks for that. I have all kinds of options now.
The 2nd zone on my AVR is just a single set of RCA outputs and a subwoofer output.
 
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The way I see it is you have 2 viable sensible options, 1. Add a bluetooth receiver adapter to the second room and play your music from spotify from your phone/tablet etc. 2. Create two independent systems, the one you already have in your main room and one in the remote room (maybe with a cheaper CD and Turntable)
You could (theoretically) run a stereo coax from the pre-out of the first receiver to the input of the second receiver but as I said, doing this over a 75 foot run will cause massive signal loss and do odd things with capacitance and possibly add loads of hum, plus its going to be a real pain running next door to change source etc.
If it were me I would just add bluetooth with something like the (iFi Audio ZEN Blue) to the second room amp and just use spotify.
 
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I'm liking the looks of this... It's a cost but not bad for what it is and I believe it will solve my issue... Any input is welcome.
 
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I got sick of trying to figure all the above stuff up and just dropped a few dimes on a network capable AVR and a wifi stereo amp for the second room. Now I can do whatever I want in/from either room with an app on my phone, So now my only very simple question is, both the AVR and the Stereo amp have phono inputs and both of my turntables have built in pre-amps. I am assuming that I am to bypass the built in units on the TTs before I hook them up to the phono inputs on the amps, correct?
 
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Well yes if you think the one in the amp sounds better, try the one built in to the TT first then the one in the amp and go with whatever sounds best, But, don't use them both at the same time.
 
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Does anyone know if there's a way to adjust latency issues on bluetooth connections?
have a receiver that has bluetooth transmit feature and another older AVR with a bluetooth adapter input via RCA to the AUX input. It works but there's a bit of latency between the 2. I can't find any useful info for the AVR or the bluetooth adapter but the specs on both specify that there should be minimal amounts, not noticeable to the average person. I'm not what most would call average but It's quite noticeable if between the 2 being able to hear both. It's fine when in either listening area obviously but I move around a lot and my purpose for this was to be able to hear the same tunes anywhere in the place. I can certainly hear it but when I am anywhere between the 2 systems the music is terrible due to the difference between the 2
 
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You can actually get a difference between 2 AVRs even when directly connected, due to different delay settings in the speaker setup. Does the "master" avr have speaker delay options? If so, you should be able to add in enough delay that the 2 amplifiers are more in sync. Of course, this might throw out the lip sync on the main avr...

Do check if all audio delay has been removed from the "slave" avr, but the encoding and decoding of the signal will introduce a small delay in the Bluetooth.

Sony amongst others have link modes for their powered speakers. These remain synced up while in party mode, so might be a better option. I use Alexa speakers and the Play Everywhere function in Spotify, and this works for me while wandering around the house!
 
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You can actually get a difference between 2 AVRs even when directly connected, due to different delay settings in the speaker setup. Does the "master" avr have speaker delay options? If so, you should be able to add in enough delay that the 2 amplifiers are more in sync. Of course, this might throw out the lip sync on the main avr...

Do check if all audio delay has been removed from the "slave" avr, but the encoding and decoding of the signal will introduce a small delay in the Bluetooth.

Sony amongst others have link modes for their powered speakers. These remain synced up while in party mode, so might be a better option. I use Alexa speakers and the Play Everywhere function in Spotify, and this works for me while wandering around the house!
I do have Alexa and I am a Spotify Premium subscriber so I will look into this. I have Spotify capability on the master (Onkyo TX-NR6050) which also has the Bluetooth RX & TX. I think the latency issue is simply a distance matter, the receiver adapter for the slave is about 35'/11m away and there's an interior wall between. There is a clear shot down the corridor and I could move the slave to the opposite wall which would get it down to about 24'/8m and eliminate the wall obstruction but that would require completely rearranging the room and re-routing all 7.1 speaker wiring. Not an impossible option but I am interested in the option that you have with Alexa and Spotify. So from what I can gather, the master is easy because of the NET function with Spotify. I am assuming I would have to use either my phone or second laptop to bluetooth or 3.5mm audio cord to the slave and then just tell Alexa to play music with Spotify everywhere?
 
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OK, it sounds like you are further down the path than I thought you were.

I would still suggest you run a pair balanced cables as the link between the AVRs. If it has line out, that's perfect. Is it a Record output? If so, it will be fixed line level, but it it's a pre-out, you will need to mute the speakers in the other room in order to turn the amp up loud enough to send a strong signal through the Pre-amp outputs. Zone 2 will be separately controlled and will give the best option in terms of control and routing sources.

You could run balanced cables and just fit RCA connectors to start off with and see if it works OK. If so, happy days, nothing more to do, but if not, you can use the suggestion below:

You don't need to spend a fortune on the balancing equipment. 2 of these - 1 of each end will do the job.

Amazon product ASIN B0039OVVC0
You would need to either adapt the cable or solder your own connectors, but this is easy enough to do.

Amazon product ASIN B07CQXRRRV
Would this work? Instead of fixing RCA plugs to my guitar cables...
 
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No then I believe I would need to increase because my goal is to run wires over long distances. I need to run about 75' of cable of some sort. If standard RCA cables can't handle it but the instrument cables with 1/4" jacks will I will figure it out. I have it wireless now but there is latency no matter how I try it. I've spent more money than I was planning on by far to try to do this and so far, they have all worked but with varying degrees of latency. The strange part is that I don't understand why the wifi had the most latency, it should technically be the fastest connection. I have the main AVR pushing a Bluetooth signal via it's built in transmitter to a receiver adapter plugged in via RCA adapter to 3.5mm jack using the AUX input on the satellite receiver now, which has the least latency but it's still enough to be bothersome when I am anywhere between and can hear both systems so it's still no good to me. I have tried all the settings I can find on all of the devices and nothing works. I can make the latency worse, but not better. Also above and beyond all this, I simply don't like wireless connections of any kind. I just don't trust them and never will. I like my wires because they work all the time when the connections are made, period. Every wireless connection I have ever had for any reason has had lost connections which have caused me every kind of grief known to man.
 
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It's not the connector type that affects the signal, but whether you are sending a balanced or unbalanced signal. Anything unbalanced is more susceptible to noise and interference. Ideally you want to use a balanced signal, so you may need some balanced to unbalanced adapters. These baluns will reduce the amount of noise and interference on the line significantly.

Wifi and Bluetooth are both packet based digital systems, so there's always a slight delay in encoding and decoding the audio. For zero or very low latency, you would be better with an analogue or dedicated digital link. Faster wifi works by sending more information in parallel so the latency won't improve just because it's a faster connection.

I would look at balanced cabling as an initial solution.
 
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It's not the connector type that affects the signal, but whether you are sending a balanced or unbalanced signal. Anything unbalanced is more susceptible to noise and interference. Ideally you want to use a balanced signal, so you may need some balanced to unbalanced adapters. These baluns will reduce the amount of noise and interference on the line significantly.

Wifi and Bluetooth are both packet based digital systems, so there's always a slight delay in encoding and decoding the audio. For zero or very low latency, you would be better with an analogue or dedicated digital link. Faster wifi works by sending more information in parallel so the latency won't improve just because it's a faster connection.

I would look at balanced cabling as an initial solution.
Yeah sounds like that's my only option. I just don't understand why this is so difficult. It seems like it should be a pretty simple connection. This is very similar to a problem I have connecting my 2 laptops. I had to set up an entire home network which basically forces me to use the internet or at least my router which is connected to the internet in order to simply exchange files between the 2. Bluetooth is way too slow for large files and the newer laptop doesn't have an ethernet port which I'm not totally sure would have worked anyway the way Windows has the network stuff set up. I know, different but in a way similar to me because it seems like it should be a very simple thing to do without needing a college degree to do.
 
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Yeah sounds like that's my only option. I just don't understand why this is so difficult. It seems like it should be a pretty simple connection. This is very similar to a problem I have connecting my 2 laptops. I had to set up an entire home network which basically forces me to use the internet or at least my router which is connected to the internet in order to simply exchange files between the 2. Bluetooth is way too slow for large files and the newer laptop doesn't have an ethernet port which I'm not totally sure would have worked anyway the way Windows has the network stuff set up. I know, different but in a way similar to me because it seems like it should be a very simple thing to do without needing a college degree to do.
This is because the consumer facing interface is very simple, but the technology behind quite often is not.

You can directly connect 2 laptops together. You can do it without a router and in fact you just need a simple crossover cable. However, you do need then to understand and implement things like manual ip addresses and sharing drives etc. Because most of us connect our laptops to the Internet and don't want to have to change settings, the consumer interface is designed around using a router to assign ip addresses automatically. You don't need the router connected to the Internet to make this work, so for most people this is a perfectly acceptable solution.

With your sub, you are using domestic style unbalanced connections designed to run 10' or so without issue. The design assumes that the mains power will come from the same point and all equipment in the chain will follow proper earthing topology. This makes it relatively simple to connect the equipment together using cheap to produce cabling, and 99 times out of 100, it works fine.

As soon as you step outside of these design parameters, things get more difficult and a greater degree of knowledge and experience is required. Distributed home audio has its own set of design rules, and although the consumer interface should remain quite simple, the design may not be. You might start to need equipment and protocols from pro audio sources, which can be more difficult and expensive to integrate.

You don't need a university degree, but a basic understanding of some of the concepts and limitations. Understanding earthing and eliminating earth loops, why balanced, low impedance or isolated connections help with longer distance signal transmission and how seemingly unconnected things like an antenna plugged into a TV or AVR can introduce problems that are difficult to overcome.

The first principle is to understand what the problem is, and not just to randomly change things until the problem has been masked. Same with Bluetooth and WiFi. Understanding the basic underlying principles can save a lot of grief in the long term.
 
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Yes, I agree, and thanks. Sometimes, with me at least, and particularly lately possibly and presumably for a couple of reasons, I have a hard time wrapping my head around things that some other people find easy to grasp.

I used to think I was pretty smart, and I am when it comes to things like taking tests and figuring things that have tangible dynamics out. I'm good at math, reading comprehension, sciences like biology and chemistry, all sorts of social studies, I did exceptionally well in school, etc etc. I'm even good at reading people and figuring things out when it comes to interacting with them and various other problem solving methods but there are also certain things that just stump me blind for no apparent reason because if I stick to it long enough to finally get it, I've got it well and for good and when I look back on how hard it was for me to get it, it kinda blows my mind and makes me feel that I'm not really as smart as I think I am because there's no way it should have been that hard to figure out. This is especially true of I encounter others who have a hard time comprehending how to exist but aced something I couldn't get.

Things such as electronic connections are one of these and one which I've always struggled with and it's frustrating because I'm a tech and gadget junkie. My uncle who raised me and probably is responsible for the reason I am into electronics was a wizard with the stuff and he tried to teach me all about it and used to bail me out when I got in a bind but he's no longer around to do that and I don't know anyone else that I would even think about trusting for advise on these topics. I work in construction and often am working with electricians and various IT guys including the ones that do the audio for schools and hospitals and various other facilities that we build and they don't usually have answers to any of the things I ask. They are all like robots, they do what they do but don't know crap about anything else, even if it's relative to their field.

I got car audio pretty much nailed down but that's only because I have done so many installations now. It was also a struggle at first which I figured out through trial and error which is not the ideal way. It's time consuming and can be expensive as well as potentially dangerous depending on what happens and what equipment you just fried or are about to fry. I understand many things in life have to be figured out this way but I don't think electrical and electronics should be one of them in this day and age but alas, here I am with my rear end in my hands once again after over 35 years of technological gadgetry experimentation.

Anyway, I appreciate the responses and advise. I'm still working on this but I'm currently in a financial standstill as I have other obligations, issues, and a general lack of income to sustain my hobbies and living expenses concurrently. It will be this way at least until well after the holiday season. Tax time may offer me a bit to play with but more than likely will be later in the season when it all gets back in motion and some substantial overtime is available again.

I have the latency issue as minimal as possible. It's still not ideal but it's better than it was and is fairly tolerable. I moved everything in my place around so that the main AVR which transmits has a clear shot to the Bluetooth receiver without any abstruction and I played around with the speaker delay on the slave and got them as close to being in sync as I can for the time being. I'm thinking of trying an FM transmitting device like one I used to use in my car for playing my mp3 player before I got a head unit with a 3.5mm audio jack. If I put both AVRs on the same FM radio station they're perfectly synced but I know that's from the FM transmission and not anything I have done but it made me think that maybe there's a viable solution in that department. I generally don't listen to the commercial radio stations nor the music they play so repetitiously. I still have a place for classic rock and have my select favorites that I'll play on occasion but before I discovered the universe of music available out there, when all I had was the radio and tapes, CDs, mp3s, etc of what I heard on the radio, I heard all those songs so many times that I almost dislike them now. Not really but every now and then I'll turn the radio on to a classic rock station but it won't stay there long because I've heard them all so many times and I'm a new music hunter gatherer now and I listen to many different genres. There's still plenty of fodder out there for me so... Why?
 
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Well, after posting the previous message I went looking for an FM transmitter and as it turns out, I guess this should have been the first thing I looked into. I had thought about it briefly because I got one for the car when I got a Samsung Note 20 Ultra which had no audio output jack. I also had one way back before I had a car stereo with an audio input. I still have the one from recently in the car because it has a little spectrum analyzer on the screen that actually works correctly. I have a Motorola phone now which has an audio output jack which I plug into it and then plug the output for the transmitter into the car stereo so I can use the spectrum analyzer. I don't even use the FM transmitter function of it. But for some strange reason I didn't figure they would make such a device for home use. I figured very wrong because there are more than just a few options and it looks like almost any one of them will fit the bill for what I am trying to do. They range from less than $20 up into the thousands for super long range professional radio station broadcasting. I think I can find one in the sub $100 field that will do the job for me. Even if I do have to get a cheap one with a 3.5mm audio input, I have RCA to 3.5mm adapters. They have one for $17 that plugs into a headphone jack. I might give that one a shot for now. Looks like the cheapest one that has RCA inputs is around $60. Still gotta be better than Bluetooth. These are latency free and good for several kilometers. Guess I should have "gone with the gut" way back and it looks like I would have saved myself some grief, and spared you all from these posts... I'll update when I actually get something and try it out but from the sounds of it, looks like this is the most viable solution.
 
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You might struggle a little with dynamic range, as radio can be quite limiting in this respect. Remember also that the receiver will hiss if the transmitter is switched off.
 
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You might struggle a little with dynamic range, as radio can be quite limiting in this respect. Remember also that the receiver will hiss if the transmitter is switched off.
I'll see about the dynamic range issue, if there is one in this case, it's only about 10 meters (30 ish feet) in actual distance, I only needed 75' cable runs to go around the walls so as to be able to hide them and if I put things back the way they were there is a single non load bearing wall between the 2 receivers and I installed upgraded FM antennas on both, I do that as a general rule because most oem antennae aren't very good.

5I'm not going to waste any money on a cheap one to try either, I'm going to wait until I can afford a decent one so I'm hoping it will work better than Bluetooth at least and if so will give me a bandaid while I figure out the balanced cable side of things. Thanks for putting up with me and all the solid info and advise. I'll post with info on the FM deal and what choices I make when I decide on balanced cable equipment.

I'm also trying to figure out this "Zone 2/Zone B" thing on my Onkyo. Not necessarily for this issue, just to see how it works. So far not much progress with it, I've tried each connection type from the owners manual and didn't get any sound with either one so I'm back to reading up on that. Thanks again.
 
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OK, I surrender. I'm stubborn and sometimes that makes me bull headed, if not just plain dumb. So I've ordered the balanced cables with 1/4" connectors and the baluns suggested to me above. I assume that another part of my issue was (is) the slave unit. First I tried an older AV multi channel receiver, then that wifi capable receiver that I think is just junk because it's a cheap one. I'm not even going to mess around with it anymore.

So since I started this whole thing I have upgraded my main AVR from a TX-SR393 to a TX-NR6050 which has zone2/zoneB options. I have an extra set of speaker terminals which, if used, take away my rear surround in the main room. I also have a set of RCA pre-outs next to the 2 subwoofer pre-outs. So before I just go and do something without asking for advise one more time and actually listening to and using said advise, it looks like I am needing a decent integrated amplifier for the slave in order for this to work correctly. Please correct me if I'm wrong there. I am not going to make a purchase for the slave unit until I have an informed decision.

If this is the case, I have a bit of spendable cash left from my bonus so I will be looking in the sub $300 range with that being the absolute most I can spend but would be ideal if I could come in anywhere below that and I'm not against refurbished or even used equipment as long as I know that it is decent. So far on my own the best deal I have been able to find, I think anyway, is an Emotiva BasX a2m unit for $239, which is regularly $349 but I wanted to get some other opinions before I spend what I have on this. I have seen that the Emotiva stuff has a strong following with lot's of great reviews and input but this is a base model so I just wanted to see that if it is indeed still on a par with their higher teir stuff in terms of quality and such, if it is still a good option or if there is better for the same kind of money, or less?
 
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