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Rant against fanboys selling disinformation - bordering on lies

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
I need to vent :)

1st off this is not aimed at anyone here, we are humans there is no such thing as pure objectivity when giving an opinion and we all have some bias..... when it comes to VR I feel the rift as a <slight> edge for my needs, others feel the vive has the edge... and that is 100% fine, and what a dull world it would be if we were all drones with exactly the same thoughts.

but my god some of the BS i have seen on other sites........ As you may know Alien Isolation is getting a VR release soon and i am following it like a dog with a bone being not only a VR but also alien franchise fanboy that i am (AI in VR is arguably my perfect game!) .... its fan made so things take time. iirc it will be coming 1st with oculus native support (revive works i believe) and then steam VR will be next up in a patch once the oculus one is working correctly.

the response to that news i saw on a site was that the rift is a piece of junk VR not worth even half of the summer sale price. Most people disagreed, however it was scary (imo) the amount of people who agreed.

I would like to think most people here could agree the products are at least in the same ballpark. VR is still in its infancy. imo all BS posts saying stuff like the above do is spread FUD and may harm VR as a whole.

ok rant over, as you were :D
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
The Facebook facehugger sucks the donkey's dangly bits (and by dangly bits I mean tail, of course) and everyone knows it. All hail the Vive master race :p
 

Thug

Moderator
Ha ha, they both have their place (albeit the Rift is further up the food chain :smashin:), but I agree.
I wonder how many of these people have actually used one? Not many I bet.
Not only that but it could be 13 year old silly fanboys spouting this drivel, so hopefully a lot of interested parties will be wise enough to do their research before buying either.
As you said, all it does is harm the future of VR.
 

Atmos

Prominent Member
Thing is if you go on hardware alone the Vive has the best tracking solution. It's performs better under larger play spaces with less sensors. It's uses one USB v 4 USB of the Rift with three sensors. It doesn't have USB driver issues or the need to buy extra USB cards. Once Knuckles arrive with hands free full finger tracking the Touch will look limited and outdated. SteamVR Home is a far superior experience to OH. Vive has several wireless solutions while the Ocukus has non. Vive has the backing of Palmer Lucky who pays CrossVR to keep Vivers access to Oculus games through Revive. But Oculus has slightly better larger sweet spot on the HMD.

So there's little contest over which is the better hardware which is why Oculus were forced to reduce the price of the Rift in order to close the gap in sales between the Vive.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
I agree vive has better tracking in large areas. If you have a 5m x 5m area then its the better choice...... how many of us do tho? .Thei rest is arguable at best.
I believe my setup is comparable to a vive and my mate with a vive agrees too.. i cant help but feel you seem desperate for the rift to fail for some reason. Rather than accept that Both systems are capable when set up correctly.

and imo either one " winning" can only be a bad thing for us.
 

Atmos

Prominent Member
I'm not desperate, I wasn't the one who started this thread.

Take the Vive out of the equation. Would Oculus be so compelled to slash the price of the Touch from £199 to £99 so quickly. Then would they be so compelled to drop the package price to a shocking £399 a short time after that. My answer if I owned the Vive or not would be no. There's no rush for VR, it will grown when the interest is there.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
lol we seem to be having this discussion in 2 places. please excuse lazy cut and past but I don't get much gaming time and landfall is waiting.

obviously total speculation on my part (as is your hypotheses) however another way of looking at it is this...... Palmer L expected the HMD on its own to launch at $350. Internally this was quite probably the plan imo - that or PL is an out an out liar, but then given how loaded he is, I just do not see a reason to blatantly lie.
So imo its quite plausible that, combined with an obviously limited supply of oculus rifts and no hand tracking devices, with the vive launching at a very high price oculus just thought screw it, sell high at the start as we cant make them fast enough anyway, then, once the fanboys have them, and we have a full product to go to market with, and production is properly ramped up then cut the price down to what many were expecting from day 1.

I may be wrong, but 1 thing is fairly certain imo.... Palmer lucky expected the rift to be far cheaper than it was on launch... presumably he knew what the mark up was etc given his position?
PS my TV launched in 2012 with an rrp of £4000

I bought 6-9 months later for £2000 (albeit an employee discount in there too). my point is, its not unheard of for electronic components to drop quickly after launch
 

ArmitageShanks

Prominent Member
I've noticed on other forums it's generally Rift owners that throw a major hissy fit at any mention of their device behind inferior in any way. Vive owners don't really care, probably because they're too busy playing games rather than dealing with USB cards and extension cables.
 

Sebastalona

Distinguished Member
I think the more pertinent question is...........why does anyone care?
 

Sebastalona

Distinguished Member
I


I don't know. Why did you care to ask?

I just find it strange people getting riled about some so inconsequential.
 

GMC79

Distinguished Member
Only reason i would have bought a vive for a fair chunk of extra cash is if it had a much higher resolution. Which it doesn't.
Vr is amazing and if a rift 2 or vive 2 came out tomorrow with double resolution and more fov id happilly fork out again in a heartbeat + price of a new gpu. Don't care which one it was. But why would anyone currently spend nearly twice the price on a vive?
 

Furnace Inferno

Prominent Member
Thing is if you go on hardware alone the Vive has the best tracking solution. It's performs better under larger play spaces with less sensors. It's uses one USB v 4 USB of the Rift with three sensors. It doesn't have USB driver issues or the need to buy extra USB cards. Once Knuckles arrive with hands free full finger tracking the Touch will look limited and outdated. SteamVR Home is a far superior experience to OH. Vive has several wireless solutions while the Ocukus has non. Vive has the backing of Palmer Lucky who pays CrossVR to keep Vivers access to Oculus games through Revive. But Oculus has slightly better larger sweet spot on the HMD.

So there's little contest over which is the better hardware which is why Oculus were forced to reduce the price of the Rift in order to close the gap in sales between the Vive.
Perhaps the experience is different depending on the headset but SteamVR Home is terrible:

1. What's the point of having a large screen with no real use other than marketplace crap?

2. You can't access your library without bringing up a separate menu

3. When you launch a game it takes you to the standard White VR area as Home is it's own app not the actual VR interface like Oculus Home before launching.

4. It takes much longer to load both on startup and shutdown and most of the time when I exit a game it doesn't even go back to Steam Home.

5. I've found it very buggy, steam vr theatre doesn't work at all for no apparent reason, the back button to bring up the menu stops working after I exit a game unless I open oculus home menu first. More annoyingly once it's detected my sim pedals it thinks a button is being held and goes mental unless I 1/2 depress the accelerator.

The only thing SteamVR Home does better is it let's you look at the desktop without taking of the headset which is super useful for Assetto Corsa which has no VR menus. Sure it has more features than OH but at least OH works all the time which is far more important IMO and gave me a much better impression.

Hardware wise I can't personally comment but the reported differences are minimal at best, certainly for room scale Vive is better/easier but Rift is meant to have a larger sweet spot which for sim racing/seated stuff is more important.

The knuckle controllers look great I'll give you that, being able to throw things naturally would be great, however they aren't above and beyond the touch controllers, ultimately you are still using a controller which isn't natural.

I don't think the price drop had anything to do with Vive but was simply to get rid of old stock with the Xbox One controller and bring a single package with motion controls included to ensure all future customers have them.
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
SteamVR Home needs some work. Definitely agree that the big screen needs more functionality. I want a view of my desktop and a web browser on there!

Though @Furnace Inferno I admire your passion! You've only had your Rift a week or so and check you out going for some fanboy blood :thumbsup:

But of course the Vive will WIN, it's inevitable. All Rift fanboy will be eaten... Slowly :p
 

Thug

Moderator
Thing is if you go on hardware alone the Vive has the best tracking solution. It's performs better under larger play spaces with less sensors. It's uses one USB v 4 USB of the Rift with three sensors. It doesn't have USB driver issues or the need to buy extra USB cards. Once Knuckles arrive with hands free full finger tracking the Touch will look limited and outdated. SteamVR Home is a far superior experience to OH. Vive has several wireless solutions while the Ocukus has non. Vive has the backing of Palmer Lucky who pays CrossVR to keep Vivers access to Oculus games through Revive. But Oculus has slightly better larger sweet spot on the HMD.

So there's little contest over which is the better hardware which is why Oculus were forced to reduce the price of the Rift in order to close the gap in sales between the Vive.

Not sure how the Vive has better tracking than the Rift.
The Rift works great for most people's use.
What size room do you use yours in? I bet most are between 1.5mtr square to 3mtr square max. Not an issue for either VR set.
I didn't have any issues with tracking even when I had only 1 sensor. Never had USB port issues either.
Ok the Rift uses more USB ports and possibly may require a USB multi port too. It may require USB extensions also, but the Vive requires more electric sockets and if you don't have any spare or near to where the sensor is to be positioned then that could raise issues with power leads trailing across the floor.
The Rift is lighter and more comfortable according to many reviews.
All that works on the Vive/steam will work on the Rift with ease.
To use Rift games on the Vive you need to run some dodgy cheat software. So on paper the Rift has more games that work natively.

Both have plus and minus points.
There isn't any clear 'winner', nor should there be winners/losers either. VR should be the winner.
 

Nivek TT

Distinguished Member
There isn't any clear 'winner', nor should there be winners/losers either. VR should be the winner.

You sound as limp as a modern school sports day o_O

Of course there will be a winner. It will be the Vive - FACT!

Note the use of bold, capital font. That's how you settle a fanboy war... Thumb-up-fist-bump... BOOM! :smashin:

And the Rift owners will start winning like Charlie Sheen once they see the error of their ways... Thanks to the awesominance of the Vive.
 

s73

Prominent Member
I've not all the thread but in response to OP... think this through... I'm guessing if Facebook bought out HTC or Vive and not Oculus then most of the haters would be hating the Vive instead
 

Thug

Moderator
You sound as limp as a modern school sports day o_O

Of course there will be a winner. It will be the Vive - FACT!

Note the use of bold, capital font. That's how you settle a fanboy war... Thumb-up-fist-bump... BOOM! :smashin:

And the Rift owners will start winning like Charlie Sheen once they see the error of their ways... Thanks to the awesominance of the Vive.

He used capitals.
How can I compete with that?
I have no more argument to add, I'm out.

Now lets all go and play Alien: Isolation in VR. Oh sorry, you expensive Vive owners cant play that one. Boom!
You will just have to settle playing the fantastic Robo Recall instead (don't tell me you cant play that one either).

Sarcasm and slightly better intelligence is how you settle a fanboy war.
 

Furnace Inferno

Prominent Member
Not sure how the Vive has better tracking than the Rift.
The Rift works great for most people's use.
What size room do you use yours in? I bet most are between 1.5mtr square to 3mtr square max. Not an issue for either VR set.
I didn't have any issues with tracking even when I had only 1 sensor. Never had USB port issues either.
Ok the Rift uses more USB ports and possibly may require a USB multi port too. It may require USB extensions also, but the Vive requires more electric sockets and if you don't have any spare or near to where the sensor is to be positioned then that could raise issues with power leads trailing across the floor.
The Rift is lighter and more comfortable according to many reviews.
All that works on the Vive/steam will work on the Rift with ease.
To use Rift games on the Vive you need to run some dodgy cheat software. So on paper the Rift has more games that work natively.

Both have plus and minus points.
There isn't any clear 'winner', nor should there be winners/losers either. VR should be the winner.
I will say it doesn't like my USB 3.0 ports at all but works fine on USB 2.0, tracking however unlike Vive is not 360 out of the box and because it doesn't like my ports I couldn't get another sensor even if I wanted to unless I also got a USB 3.0 PCI-E card.

Still that would be considerably cheaper than a Vive but the latter is also undoubtedly easier with 2 sensors vs. 3 and not having to route them all back to the PC as I have plugs in 3 corners.

Like GMC though a massive increase in resolution which would also necessitate foveated rendering and possibly increased FOV are the only thins which would be a worthwhile improvement for me, maybe wireless too as the wire is quite annoying and not long enough.
 

Thug

Moderator
Yeah I bought an internal USB 3 card for about £20.
The cables going to the sensors don't bother me as the are hidden behind furniture (so would power leads too, but I only have 2 sockets in my room, so that would cause issues).

I do like the single HMD cable of the Rifts though. This may be shorter than the Vive's, but it can be extended.
 
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MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
Now lets all go and play Alien: Isolation in VR. Oh sorry, you expensive Vive owners cant play that one. Boom!
You will just have to settle playing the fantastic Robo Recall instead (don't tell me you cant play that one either)..

my vive owning mate who bought roborecall and also can play AI off my shared account begs to differ ;)

you can get 360 degree off 2 sensors with the rift, with 1 up high at around 10/11 oclock pointing down to the middle of your play area and one down low pointing up at around 4/5 oclock

this means you should not have usb load issues but admittedly occlusion is a bigger issue with touch than it is wands, partly due to the admittedly slightly superior light house system, and partly I suspect due to the spoons at the end of the wands.

a 3 sensor system is as close to flawless as I have experienced in VR however (as is my vive experiences too mind you)
 
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jjgreenwood

Prominent Member
At this rate neither will win. I didn't like the rift, not because of it's tracking or because it's store was sh*t. I was quite happy with both. I didn't like it because at the end of a busy day I don't want to strap a low resolution HMD on my head with loads of wires. I couldn't be bothered with the weight, the heat, being constrained to the desk was inconvenient.

You lot arguing constantly which solution is better won't make this generation of VR any better.
 

Thug

Moderator
Now lets all go and play Alien: Isolation in VR. Oh sorry, you expensive Vive owners cant play that one. Boom!
You will just have to settle playing the fantastic Robo Recall instead (don't tell me you cant play that one either).

my vive owning mate who bought roborecall and also can play AI off my shared account begs to differ

To use Rift games on the Vive you need to run some dodgy cheat software. So on paper the Rift has more games that work natively.
.

I was aware that it can be used, just not natively.

Another thing to think about is that some are only making games for the Rift. Does that mean that they are ploughing their resources in to who they think is the better system?
 

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