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R1 vs. R2 - Picture Quality

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by HSC, Sep 21, 2005.

  1. HSC

    HSC
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    hoping someone can clarify something for me.......


    Is the picture quality on Region2 PAL disks better than Region1...?

    My theory is that PAL should be 576 lines and NTSC 480 lines.
    Thats 96 more lines than NTSC and only 144 lines less than 720 HD.

    I know there is a bit more to it than that (bitrate, print, encoding etc).
    But people are telling me that PAL DVD's are better because of this.

    I also remember seeing a website not so long ago that compared the pic quality (with screen caps) of House of Flying Daggers with 4 versions from different regions and the R2 version was the best.....(could never find that site again)


    Opinions please....
     
  2. LV426

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    Been done to death many many times.

    Theoretically the extra horizontal lines give PAL better vertical definition.
    Offset against that, films transferred to video in PAL are accelerated by about 4%.

    In practice, other factors have a much, much greater impact on PQ than the number of scanlines. You have to choose which version to buy on a per-title basis.

    By the way - you've kind of asked the wrong question. Your question is about PAL vs. NTSC, not about regions. Region 2 titles can be NTSC - just go shopping in Japan.
     
  3. HSC

    HSC
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    thought as much - thanks for the answer
     
  4. HSC

    HSC
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    are scanlines factor if you are using a projector......picture is blown up much more than on a TV set...??
     
  5. LV426

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    Mostly, no. If it's a panel projector (i.e. LCD, DLP, D-iLA, etc) then the incoming line structure is wholly invisible. The incoming signal is scaled up to fit the array of the panels (e.g. 1280 x 720 = 720 lines) regardless.

    If it is a CRT projector, then, for the most part, these also have (either inside, or are used in conjunction with) scalers or line multipliers that increase the number of projected scanlines.

    So, only if it's a CRT, with no line multiplier (scaler) will the coarser scanlines be more visible.
     
  6. pRot3us

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  7. sneo

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    for me there is absolutely no contest
    I have watched hundreds of PAL & NTSC disks and I couldn't find a single NTSC disk that was acceptable to watch on my CRT TV (RGB through scart)

    4 things I've noticed:

    1) 20% less vertical resolution on all NTSC disks means I can literally count horizontal lines even from over 2m distance on an NTSC disk while on PAL I don't see any even from up close

    2) all NTSC disks judder, probably from 3:2 pulldown (added frames) as opposed to the totally smooth 4% accelarated PAL

    3) in addition to the above juddering I can see jagged edges & artifacts mostly on panning/action scenes/freeze framing on NTSC, PAL has absolutely none

    4) PAL have always much much richer colours, in fact some NTSC disks could pass as black & white (slight exxageration here) but can't explain this

    my tv is multisystem so is my dvd player and HTPC so should handle NTSC properly, at first I thought there was something wrong with my setup but I don't bother now, just keep well clear of NTSC disks :thumbsup:
     
  8. the klang

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    i run an old pioneer 737,( ntsc pro only)and the picture on my plasma is far better than a interlaced pal signal from the same player.i wouldn't mind seeing a pal pro signal to compare.
     
  9. Pug72

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    My old 50Hz tv showed coarse scanlines with NTSC, yet my 100Hz progressive scan tv displays a perfect picture with no visible scanlines.
     
  10. LV426

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    Indeed. What sneo is describing is all quite right, but is an artefact (or a limitation) of the type of display in use, as well as the nature of the video signal on the disc.

    A different type of display (such as a high resolution LCD) will conceal the scanline structure and jaggies. A decent DVD player and/or display will remove the 3:2 pulldown judder. And colour differences are not intrinsic to the TV standard; they too may be the result of different adjustments in the display.
     
  11. oxygenuk

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    the resolution is higher on PAL i think, so i think r2 is the winner
     
  12. the_pauley

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    I'd say there is something very wrong with your setup mate, most likely your TV. At least as far as its ability to handle NTSC signals is concerned.

    I have a collection of 3,000+ discs, divided almost 50/50 between PAL and NTSC and have never experienced anything like you have described in 5 years of viewing NTSC discs on a CRT set.

    Now that I have switched to DLP and a larger screen I am gobsmacked even more by the quality of many DVDs, both PAL and NTSC. I have seen examples of NTSC discs tha blow away the same movie on PAL and vice versa. Nothing to do with the broadcast format and everything to do with the sourcing and mastering of quality elements.
     
  13. Matthew Attoe

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    Hi,

    So how can I tell if my dvd players / CRT is removing 3:2 pulldown? What settings / options should I be looking for in the menus?

    Players are Sony NS900 and Tosh XS32. CRT is a 36" Tosh Strata (but only has NTSC progressive).

    Many thanks,

    Matthew
     
  14. pjclark1

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    Not if they converted it from the NTSC dvd.
    Not if the US dstributor spent time and money on the transfer, and the UK distributor didn't

    Which suggests you have your DVD player set to output PAL (and the conversion from NTSC to PAL inside your dvd player will be nasty)
     
  15. Mundu

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  16. sneo

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    thank you for all the useful replies (too many to list)

    firstly I suspect my 100Hz philips non-preogressive crt doesn't like ntsc as you say because the image in PAL never ceases to impress me

    on my set I can distinquish quality between different pal & different ntsc discs but even my worst looking pal disk looks alot better than the best ntsc disk if you know what I mean (reasonable comparisons not talking about films shot several decades back)

    secondly pal has definately 20% more vertical resolution than ntsc even if the film was converted from ntsc as every single disc I insert in my dvd rom comes up as 480 vertical res. for ntsc & 576 vertical res. for pal

    even if the higher pal resolution comes from blown up ntsc I still can't spot any scan lines on my CRT on pal while they are totally visible in ntsc

    thirdly there is no switch on my DVD player to select pal/ntsc/auto I'm pretty certain it does native pal/ntsc as well as my tv does
    in addition my htpc through s-video still produces the same results (I set it to ntsc for ntsc material because if I leave it to pal the stuttering is so bad it is unwachable)

    & lastly I'm using rgb through scart which isn't neither ntsc or pal to my very limited understanding (I'm sure some of you will know what I'm talking about - even if I don't, myself;)

    sorry for long post I'll borrow a digicam and take a pic so you can see for yourselves
     

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