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R1 Review: Fahrenheit 9/11

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by Phil Hinton, Oct 3, 2004.

  1. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    [​IMG]

    We take a look at the controversial documentary from Michael Moore, Fahrenheit 9/11

    Read the review Here

    Review disc provided by and shipping from [​IMG]
     
  2. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    That link's invalid, correct one here

    :)
     
  3. Dean

    Dean
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    good one
     
  4. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    corrected, thanks
     
  5. AML

    AML
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    I really thought Bowling For Columbine was good. What new should really be like.

    It made laugh, cry and even think!.

    I hope this one does the same!
     
  6. Smurfin

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    Shameless propoganda, and just as bad as the politicians. Moore confronting Charlton Heston was not only a deeply flawed interview but also downright rude.

    Just imho of course;)
     
  7. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Moore objects to people (including young children) being killed by all too freely available firearms. How does that make him "...just as bad as the politicians..." and why do you have a problem with that?

    And of course Heston was being truly considerate of the feelings of others by hosting pro-gun rallies in the states where those children had recently been killed, wasn't he? Just so long as he wasn't being "rude", eh?
     
  8. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    As we now know that Heston was in the opening stages of Alzheimers, it wasn't if Moore was going up against that formidable an opponent was it?

    That said, I did enjoy both films, it just pays to remember that they are no more an impartial look at events than the writings of PJ O'Rourke are for the right.
     
  9. Smurfin

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    My thoughts exactly:)

    the_pauley, I agree on the insensitivity of the gun rally; I'm not saying there aren't any good points to be made, but Moore is simply trying to be controversial and showing a "one sided" view of things, just like most politicians. Hardly balanced imho.

    What confused me most of all about BFC is that he spends the entire documentary lamenting the state of gun law and how guns are to be blame for all the killings (and yes, that's what he's getting at), then trips himself up in the final reel. In his Heston interview he then mentions the fact that guns are JUST as easy to get in Canada and in fact there are MORE guns there, but yet gun crime is alot lower (proportionally) to the USA. He asks Heston why that is but I say: "Mr Moore, why do YOU think that is?" And like Heston, I bet he couldn't answer it...

    Cheers
    Matt

    PS My memory is BFC is not necessarily spot on as I've only seen it once and it was a while ago, but I remember the irony of that final statement.
     
  10. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    :confused:

    Er, the movie is an editorial comment not a news report. It doesn't claim to be, nor is it under any obligation to be balanced.

    Moore is probably one of the very few left-of-centre voices to have a platform in the US popular media, a media dominated by an almost exclusively right-of-centre bias, that likes to pretend it is fair and balanced, e.g. Fox News.

    At least Moore makes no pretence at balance or impartiality. He has a very partial viewpoint and makes no bones about it. His movies are far from balanced. It's what he sets out to do with no pretentions otherwise.

    F 9/11, for example, is a no frills deliberate attempt to kick Bush out of the White House. No pretence at balance. His movie, his point of view, his way of saying it. Disagree with that point of view by all means, but don't knock it for not being balanced - it isn't meant to be.

    :rolleyes:

    Huh?!?! I'd say your memory of BFC is far from spot on, bordering on non-existent! Suggest you watch the movie again. Moore spends probably two-thirds of its running time building his hypothesis as to why gun killings are rife in the US compared to other countries.
     
  11. Smurfin

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    ...which is also the case in Canada, but he doesn't attempt to explain in any way why Canada doesn't have the same gun problems. His whole hypothesis is based upon guns being freely available, yet they are exactly that in a country with few gun problems. What exactly is Moore's point?

    Maybe I should watch this again:)
     
  12. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Yes he does - for almost the entire movie!

    Most definitely. Preferably with the sound on. ;)
     
  13. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    I always took Moore's view of Guns and the US to be an attitude of the American Right to be armed and the fact that American society is bombarded with Media images which cause fear and that are dominated by Crime. Something Canada doesn't have. I could be wrong in my interpretation but i thought his arguement held up very well.
     
  14. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    No different to any other country though?
     
  15. Smurfin

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    ...and the answer is?

    Seems to me that Moore doesn't actually know what his own point is.

    Anyone else got any views on this other than the_pauley, who is obviously far more intelligent than me as I had the sound off when I watched BFC;)
     
  16. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    ...a fairly complex one that can't be summed up in a sentence, which is why Moore made an entire movie to get his point across.

    What you mean is you don't see his point. At least two people on here (THX and myself) do see what his point is.

    Don't really know what else to say. He makes his theories / hypotheses crystal clear in the movie. But If you can't see it you can't see it.

    :confused:
     
  17. Daithi

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    I'll admit I don't remember much of this movie, but I do remember going in assuming that the point would be there are too many guns and being very surprised that it wasn't his point at all. I remember him differenciating the US with other gun owning countries by the way the US treats it's poor, lack of public health care, lack of empathy etc. I thought that was his point.
     
  18. Corkonian

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  19. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    That article is extremely old news. It was one of the first attempts by the pro-gun lobby to discredit the movie .

    Practically everything on it has been answered and refuted well over a year ago, the Heston "montage" section being probably the most celebrated "proof" that was more than effectively answered and debunked. But the pro-gunners continue to clutch at straws and provide links to it from their sites.

    It was exactly because of concerted attempts like this and the time wasted in responding to them that Moore decided to employ 800+ fact checkers for "F 9/11". The result of which is a massive "bibliography" for the movie consisting of links to the facts behind all statements made in the move.

    You can see this on www.michaelmoore.com - a truly awe-inspiring undertaking. It is literally the entire movie reproduced line-by-line with every statement annotated and links to evidence and sources.
     
  20. Duncan Harvey

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    My wife and I watched 9/11 last night - absolutely superb.

    But - I must admit to being very disappointed with the picture quality during much of the first 25 mins. I know that they were using various source materials, but some of it looked ghastly.

    Dont know if this was DVD compression, or whether it looked like this in the cinema.
     
  21. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Watched it on Wednesday evening and it looked pretty much the same as in the cinema.

    Much of the news / interview footage is second and third hand NTSC video. As you can imagine, given Moore's relationship with the majority of the US news media and the way in which he depicts them in the movie, Fox News and co. weren't going to provide nice first generation copies for him to use, were they? ;)
     
  22. JMPremier

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    I watched it last night and found it to be very thought provoking.

    All that we need now is the Tony Blair version of the movie (or is there one already?) to show all the 'lies' that he fobbed us off with.

    It does go to show though the power of the media and propoganda is alive and kicking all around us.

    John
     
  23. Miyazaki

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    I think it is precisely Moores' bias that could engender the populist American broadcasters with some balance.
     

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