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R1 2:35 16:9 Enhanced

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by Stellavision, Jun 17, 2003.

  1. Stellavision

    Stellavision
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    found on my newly aquired R1 dvd's, Blade and Pearl Harbour, that they are 2:35 Aspect Ratio but are enhanced for 16:9 tv's.
    This I find very good as I get less black at the top and bottom of the screen.
    Do all R1 2:35 dvd's have this 16:9 enhancement?
    I'll be rushing to swap my R2 2:35 faves like the Matrix if this is the case.
     
  2. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Not all R1 2.35 films are enhanced for 16:9 TVs and not all R2 2.35 are not. It depends on the disc.

    And you shouldnt have any less or more black at the top and bottom of the screen if you are viewing an anamorphic or non-anamorphic 2.35 film on a 16:9 TV. If this is the case then you are viewing one or the other in the wrong widescreen mode.

    P.S. R2 Matrix is enhanced for 16:9.
     
  3. nathan_silly

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    So why is it The Thing (2:35 Non Anamorphic) has whopping great borders? Wheras a 2:35 Anamophic (LOTR) has smaller borders?

    Watching in Wide mode.
     
  4. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Because you shouldnt watch a non anamorphic image in Wide mode, it should be in zoom mode (this is the name for it on Sony and Panasonic TVs, it might be different on others).

    I shudder to think how many non anamorphic DVDs youve watched in wide mode!!
     
  5. nathan_silly

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    But when I zoom in (Cinema) on the R1 The Thing I can see the scan lines.

    I haven't watched a Non Anamorphic DVD since getting my new TV, so haven't set the aspect mode for Ana/Non Ana films.
     
  6. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Hence the term "Enhanced for 16:9 TVs".

    I'd rather see the scanlines than watch a film that has been distorted so everyone has fat heeds!
     
  7. Stellavision

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    I've always left my Hitachi plasma on auto while watching DVD's thinking it would find the correct aspect ratio. I've just found that it does'nt work like that.
    Where R1 Blade gave me a 2.5 cm black line at the top while on auto, R2 Matrix gave me a 5 cm black line. I fiddled with the screen setting and on changing to 14:9 zoom I got the same picture size (2.5 cm black line at the top) as Blade did set in auto.
     
  8. Kevo

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    Wide, 4:3 and Zoom (Non-A only) modes are the only modes you should ever use and will ever need.
    Using anything else will only result in some loss of picture or distortion.

    Perhaps the difference in size of borders is caused by the difference in the number of scan lines/resolution between ntxt and PAL.
     
  9. Squirrel God

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    The size of the black borders may differ between non-anamorphic and anamorphic 2.35:1 because of different overscan settings in those modes on the display.

    Non-anamorphic 2.35:1 NTSC is unbearable for me. There are some DVDs that are only available on Reg 1 or only available on Reg 1 in the OAR, but they are non-anamorphic 2.35:1 so I have just downright refused to buy them.
     
  10. StooMonster

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    Me too, I would not buy a non-anamorphic 2.35:1 NTSC DVD; you don't exactly get many pixel lines of picture, at least PAL would give you 20% more lines. Even then, I just don't buy non-anamorphic DVDs -- 4:3 ones accepted. ;)

    StooMonster
     
  11. Squirrel God

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    I have been known to buy non-anamorphic PAL if that's all that's available, and non-anamorphic 1.85:1 NTSC if it's dirt cheap and also all that's out there. Don't own many though!

    As an aside, The Abyss SE is 2.35:1 non-anamorphic PAL and it's amazing how good the PQ is considering :)
     
  12. Garrett

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    The only non anamorphic thing I have on disc are those that where originally broadcast in 4:3.
    I was surprised that such a recent film as The Abyss was non-anamorphic.
     
  13. StooMonster

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    :eek: That is what I meant.

    Would not even consider buying a "pan and scan" version of a movie, and if given one for free would sell it on to a muppet that would. ;)

    StooMonster
     
  14. StooMonster

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    Won't it effectively be a higher bit rate? All those extra black lines mean less active lines to encode, so more detail can be stored about those active lines -- that's the theory anyway.

    StooMonster
     
  15. WBC

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    Sweetmate,

    Based on your theories of watching non-anomorphic in Zoom mode (Which I don't do!!!) What settings on a Sony would you suggest for each format, ie 1.85, 2.35:1 etc???

    I tend to leave my TV in wide mode, now I'm guessing its completely wrong. What should I have it to????

    Thanks
    Stacy
     
  16. LV426

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    There are always right and wrong ways to do things. However, at the end of the day, it is you who are watching, and you have a choice as to what suits you best.

    It is 'wrong' to watch a widescreen, non-anamorphic DVD, on a widescreen display, on anything else than the 'zoom' mode* (or whatever your TV manufacturer calls it) because things will be the wrong shape.

    But - zooming does spread the scan lines. If you prefer closer scan lines and distorted images - then you are free to make that choice.

    * (or 4x3 mode - but then you'd have black edges on all 4 sides of the image and a small active picture - you may prefer to do that of course).

    Here is the proper way to do things (if you like), assuming a 16x9 TV (etc) and your DVD player is set correctly:

    Any anamorphic/enhanced for WSTVs signal: 'Wide' mode (*1)
    Any non-anamorphic signal where the active part of the image is 16x9 or wider: 'Zoom' mode (*2)
    Any non-anamorphic material where the active part of the image is taller than 16x9: '4x3' or 'normal' mode (*3)

    (*1) 'Wide' mode is where the video signal (which may include some plain black parts) just fills the screen in both directions (+/- a bit of overscanning)

    (*2) 'Zoom' mode is where the video signal (including any plain black parts) just fills the screen horizontally, and significantly exceeds the screen height vertically. Not all of the video signal is shown, but the part that is missing is plain black so you don't lose anything important

    (*3) '4x3'/'normal' is where the video signal just fills the screen vertically and is significantly narrower than the screen horizontally.
     
  17. Garrett

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    I wasn’t referring to you but Squirrels post. ;)

    I have seen some that pictures that need zooming as extras on DVD and thy look far worse than stuff that has to be zoomed on TV. I cannot see why The Abyss was realised in such a way, it seems very sloppy.
     
  18. James45

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    I wouldn't dream of watching a film in anything other than the correct AR, TV and TV based DVDs are another matter though and I will watch them in smart mode.
    If you don't like the scan lines then don't buy NTSC non-anamorphic 2.35:1 discs... but whatever you do please don't stretch it in wide!!
     
  19. CarlB

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    The R1 disc of The Abyss was released in non-anamorphic widescreen as, at the time of release, Cameron perceived the number of US 4:3 displays vastly outnumbered the number of 16:9 displays. Anamorphic discs at the time came in for a large amount of criticism on the US forum boards, due to poor downscaling of the anamorphic image by the DVD player. This meant that the majority of the US viewing public were subject to inferior quality video with anamorphic discs when they were viewed on their 4:3 sets.

    Thankfully, the drive to HDTV in the US has led to greater acceptance of 16:9 displays so the situation is now reversed at long last. Also, the modern DVD player is much better at downscaling the anamorphic image for a 4:3 display so the complaints from 4:3 owners seem to have fallen away.
     
  20. Garrett

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    But wasn’t it only released about a year ago? When the vast majority if not all the other where being released in anemographic.
     
  21. Stellavision

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    I'm not convinced about all this, now, and remain a little confused.
    My Attack of the clones (R2) is 2:35:1 Anamaphoric widescreen but displays a 5cm black line at the top and bottom when watched in auto or wide mode.
    When I switch to 14:9 zoom a get only 2 cm black lines the same as my R1 'Enhanced for 16:9 TV's' disks when my tv is on auto or wide mode.
    So what is the correct way to view these R2 2:35's? In wide or 14:9 zoom?
     
  22. sweetmate

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    Watch anamorphic DVDs in Wide and Wide only.
     
  23. Squirrel God

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    Not a higher bitrate but given fewer 'active' lines more 'bang for buck' with the same bitrate, if they decided to take advantage of that :)

    Be careful comparing non-anamorphic extras with non-anamorphic feature films. Non-anamorphic features usually look a lot better as extras like deleted scenes tend to come from dire sources anyway :)


    You are getting aspect ratios and 16x9 enhancement (aka anamorphic widescreen) confused.

    You get black bars on both anamorphic 2.35:1 and non-anamorphic 2.35:1.
     
  24. Garrett

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    I was wondering about that and was wondering if somebody knew something I didn’t.:rolleyes:
     
  25. CarlB

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    No, The Abyss R1 was released as a 2 disc SE in 2000, last year's release was just a re-release as a single disc.
     
  26. Noodle

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    And if you're still confused (and I wouldn't blame you if you were), use the video tests on a disk with THX Optimode to test that you've got you're screen set correctly.

    There are both normal & anamorphic tests on there.
     
  27. LV426

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    Assuming that the TV and DVD are setup correctly, and you choose the correct screen mode, there should be no difference in the shape of the active part of the image on, say, a 2.35:1 movie, between:

    a) an anamorphic NTSC disc
    b) an anamorphic PAL disc
    c) a non-anamorphic NTSC disc
    d) a non-anamorphic PAL disc.

    Any differences that do arise are either due to operator error, different ratios of the films themselves (or their transfers to DVD) or maladjustment in the TV. (or your imagination!)
     
  28. StooMonster

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    Still the case today.

    Unless this has changed in the last few months, I disagree that there is greater acceptance of 16:9 displays. When I was last in AV stores in the USA (through-out last year in East Coast, West Coast and other countries in the Americas) they were full of 4:3 sets -- but giant ones! There was the odd 16:9 plasma and RPTV, but they even had 4:3 plasmas.

    I've got friends in US who've recently bought 4:3 tvs as their perception is it's normal tv and widescreen is for AV nuts, whereas everyone I know here's had 16:9 ones for years.

    IMHO the general US public remains highly resistant to changing to 16:9 ratio screens, AV enthusiasts aside.

    StooMonster
     
  29. Squirrel God

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    Hence the much more frequent release there than here of dual widescreen and P&S/full-screen DVDs (either in the same package or available separately) :(
     
  30. CarlB

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    4:3 displays still outnumber installed screens in the US, but as HDTV is a native 16:9 display there are definite gains in the acceptance of 16:9 in the US now. Without HDTV I still think we might be seeing non-anamorphic DVDs, it's only the understanding that everything is 'going' HDTV/16:9 that is providing some impetus. Two of my friends in the US have recently bought 16:9 HD displays to watch the HiDef US football next season, and it seems that HiDef sports in one of the main driving factors pushing HDTV.

    I know what you mean about most stores in the US though. When I was in Fry's and Best Buy you couldn't move for hulking 100" 4:3 RPTVs and the like, but bear in mind these stores are the (much larger) equivalent of our Dixons et al, pushing mainstream fare for the masses.
     

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