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Quick Sky+ Installation Question (Carpets?)

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by burnsybhoy, Oct 26, 2005.

  1. burnsybhoy

    burnsybhoy
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    Hi!

    I'm thinking of getting Sky+ installed free through the introduce a friend offer.
    The thing is I've had my original Sky for nearly 3 years and I can't really remember the install.

    The cable runs from the back of the flat through my bedroom under the carpet in the hall and finally through a wall to my living room. I've had new carpets put down since I got Sky and I'm a bit concerned about how they will lift the carpet to remove the cable and run the new one.

    Has anyone had this done before? Do the installers lift and relay the carpet to a good standard? All I remember about my original installation is 3 guys came and done it and they were contractors.

    Cheers!!
     
  2. thelurch

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    From my experience of the sky installers they will not touch the carpets, they will only run cables along skirting etc.

    I wanted the cables from the dish on the chimney to be fed under a tile into the loft but they said they could not do that as they cannot touch tiles and are not allowed to go in the loft.

    These were contractors, and they said that was skys rules. Ive had two sets of installers sent by sky and both lots were very unflexible.

    I think it depends on who you get more than anything, some may lift the carpets but I really doubt it, they are all too worried about being sued if they break something or ruin your carpet.

    In the end I had to pay a local company to put the cables where I wanted them to go and they just put the dish up and connected it all up
     
  3. samjet

    samjet
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    exactly the point - i'm about to have sky+ installed and there is no way that the muppet contractors from sky are getting near the install :(

    i've a private contractor (sky registered installer) doing the work and i tell him what i want where i want :D

    costs a few quid more but you can choose cables and dish etc (not forgetting the 'box')

    i fairness to the sky installers :rolleyes: i suppose they get only a fixed price per install!
     
  4. Bluevanman

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    We are neither carpet fitters or roofers. If we damage your carpet or tiles Sky gets an insurance claim,and we get investigated. The rules about lofts are for health and safety reasons it must be lit and boarded in the areas where we are going to work.
     
  5. samjet

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    and yet the sky installers break all regs regarding the use of ladders :confused:
     
  6. Nick_UK

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    For someone who won't allow "muppet" installers on their property, you seem to know an awful lot about them ? :rolleyes:
     
  7. samjet

    samjet
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    i've got a few friends including my next door neighbour who had sky install problems - including having to get an independant contractor to align the dish correctly

    does that answer your question :confused:

    also see other threads about 'stroppy' sky installers :devil:
     
  8. thelurch

    thelurch
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    I appreciate that but a lot of Sky installers Ive dealt with ( 4 due to bad installations) They all seem to be very unflexible.

    When I booked our initial install I asked about putting the dish on the chimney and whether it was still covered under the free installation. I was told that as long as it was under 30 feet ( that figure may be slightly wrong) then yes, and I measured from ground to the chimeny and it was under the figure they stated so I thought that would be fine.

    When the guy came, he asked where I wanted the dish and I told him the chimney and he said he couldnt, it would have to be a two man install for chimneys so I rebooked and had to pay £40 extra for the bracket.

    Two installers turned up, one went on the roof and did the dish and the other connected the sky box and then sat in the van!. Why exactly two people were needed I dont know. I had assumed one might foot the ladder for the other one but no.

    It was a joke, plus I had to get 2 more visits to actually get the dish in the correct position.
     
  9. samjet

    samjet
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    as i said before total muppets :D

    they have not got a bloody clue - my mate asked one if he could get USA programmes - told yes the whole lot :eek:

    mind you i had a JOHN LEWIS install of an av system - installer demo-ed and tried to sell me bootleg dvd's :eek:

    so JOHN LEWIS never knowingly undersold - except at car boots :devil:
     
  10. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    I get all the USA programmes on my Sky system - M.A.S.H., The Simpsons.... far too many, in fact :rotfl:
     
  11. Nick_UK

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    I would never, ever, put a satellite dish on a chimney ! Chimneys are just not built to take that kind of structural load when there's a 50MPH wind blowing. The only thing which gives brick walls any strength is the weight of the bricks pressing down, and on a chimney there aren't that many. Contrary to popular belief, cement does not stick bricks together. Any installer worth his salt would try to talk a customer out of a chimney installation.
     
  12. samjet

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    as an architect - sorry mate your talking ballcocks about chimneys and structural integrity

    may i suggest you stick to subjects about which you have some knowledge :nono:

    what sticks bricks together - sky hooks :D

    i can bore the ass off everyone about lateral stress etc and think i can still do the calcs :D

    btw did you know an architects training takes longer than a doctor :rolleyes:
     
  13. samjet

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    where can i/he get rome and lost season 2 then :confused:
     
  14. thelurch

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    my chimney is only about 6 bricks high, there was only just enough room for it .

    My next door neighbour has identical chimney and has had dish on his plus about 4 TV aerials for as long as skys been going and his chimney is fine.

    And cement does stick bricks together, I wouldnt have wanted a dish on a tall thin chimney.

    Any installer worth his salt would do it if the customer wanted him to
     
  15. Bluevanman

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    Only with a lashing kit. To fix a standard bracket to a chimney,The chimney MUST be double brick.The bolts we use are M8x60,we CANNOT fix them to a single brick construction. What subbies and independants do is outside of Skys control.

    Again, sounds like subbies.Sky employed installers do not NORMALLY charge for any form of bracketry.

    Were they Sky installers, or were they subbies? Sky installers turn up in sign written vans and wearing uniform.
     
  16. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    As a radio amateur for the last 26 years, I've probably installed (or been involved in the installation of) more aerials than you've probably owned in your entire life. I've also known professional builders who were radio amateurs, that wouldn't dream of putting large aerials on chimneys, for the same reason.

    If you think that cement sticks bricks together, you've been to the wrong school. Cement does have some binding properties, but the thing which keeps brick walls from falling down is the action of gravity. A chimney lashing kit is OK for lightweight aerials, but isn't much use with satellite dishes, where the action of wind forces and simple leverage can cause a lot of stress. You should never put a chimney lashing kit any less than ten rows down from the top - putting one near the top layer is really asking for trouble. If you think I'm wrong, hit the top layers of bricks in your garden wall with a hammer, and see how easily they fall down.

    And Samjet - don't be so :censored: rude to people when you don't know what their background is !
     
  17. thelurch

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    All the installers Ive had have been subbies, and I was told by sky when I rebooked the chimney install that it would cost £60 extra, when they came they only charged £40.
     
  18. JamieC

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    I recently had Sky+ and multiroom installed, I wanted the multiroom cable to go into the soffit and through the loft into the bedroom. I asked the engineer if this was ok and he said yes if you help me. While he was fixing the dish I jumped up the loft and pulled the multiroom cable in, job done. I left him to make all the connections. He also installed the Sky+ cables were I wanted them.
     
  19. Knyght_byte

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    if you read the current terms and conditions, the free install includes the dish being stuck to a wall up to a certain height limit with up to 20m of cabling per box for the outside, then a standard length 2m phone cable for the link from box to phone point.

    ANYTHING extra is supposed to cost you, whether its being located higher than the height limit, a twin coax longer than 20m is charged at 50p/m over the 20m, if you want a chimney bracket installation then its an extra charge of something like £40....or if you wall requires more extensive bracketing for whatever reason you are charged extra too.....

    those are from the T&C which i can happily scan in and post here when i get home if you like.

    Luckily the subbie who did ours didnt bother to count how long the coax was, looks like it was a few meters over but he said dont worry, and he was happy for a few quid to drill me a chunky size hole from one room to another so i can run a network cable plus whatever else to the spare bedroom.......technically he would be breaking laws there as its an interior wall and he has no idea of any possible cabling etc etc....but i told him there wasnt and he did it.......some will do extra work if you like, some wont, simple as.
     
  20. Bluevanman

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    It all depends on who does the job. The vast majority of Sky employed installers will not charge for anything.However, it is up to him. subbies have to buy things like cable and brackets, so most of them will charge.
     
  21. av2diefor

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    Brickwork is inherently weak, but cement mortar does actually stick them together.

    SLM (sand lime mortar) does only keep the bricks apart.

    A well built brick chimney in cement mortar will easily take the weight of a dish and offer support with wind loading.

    Bearing in mind chimney building is a dying art and your most likely to come across one built in SLM, the chances of a dish holding up , or getting a decent fix with bolts is slim.

    25 yrs as a bricky, 10 years as a lecturer in brickwork :)
     
  22. Knyght_byte

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    i'm talking about the actual terms and conditions of the contract that a customer of Sky signs......doesnt matter what actually ends up being charged for, when you get your welcome letters from sky, one of them is a piece of paper detailing how the installation happens and what any possible extra charges are.....and thats recent cuz ours only went up about 5 weeks ago....

    btw, i can vouch for 1930's built suburban houses in the NW London-Watford area as being good for lashing things to chimneys, almost all of them in my local area have aerials on the chimneys, but then they are very sturdy ones...lol....and i have seen a few dishes as well.......ours isnt tho, ours is on the corner of the house near the front, quite unobtrusive tho, the brickwork is slightly sooty there so it kinda blends in...lol
     
  23. DRGL

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    sorry but i would have to agree there-anyone who has knocked a wall down will know cement DOES stick the bricks together! And talking as an ex sky installer-we are not all muppets ;) I saw the light and left :) The rules are there for a reason,there are plenty of useless fitters out there (crappy pay doesn't attract quality people). When i worked at sky there were no rules saying you couldn't use a chimney(roof ladders on the van for fun??). I often see installs i did-one is very high up(i broke the 30ft rule as there was no other way) and that is on a chimney-we've had some gale force winds and it's been up thwere over 5 years!!
     
  24. Nick_UK

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    As confirmed by av2diefor, lime mortar gives a very weak bond - cement mortar is better, but I would not trust it. Anchor bolts work by expansion, which can split bricks and push brick layers apart if placed in the gap between bricks. I've seen whole top layers of bricks on gable ends actually pull right out when an expanding anchor has been fitted (these are often over-tightened). Anyone who uses expansion bolts on a chimney is clearly out of their mind, especially when lazy fitters drill between the bricks because it's easier.
     
  25. Mad Mikeyboy

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    What annoys me is the fact that some installers can't even drill a hole from inside to out without breaking half the brick on the outside wall away with it. I live in a 2year old semi with sky cables running round the outside of my house and entering through holes which are about six feet in diameter.

    A little bit of extra care while drilling, or scrapping the stupid " can't run cable in loft space" rule would be good, as I used to like the way my house looked from the outside. :mad:
     
  26. DRGL

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    If the brick has been punched out they should stick a nice neat plastic cover over it with silicone. You would soon complain about the "silly loft rule" if some clod foot came into your house and went through the ceiling!! And drilling into the cement is a big no-no!! The drills are more than capable to drill into brick,like i said,pay peanuts get mokeys! (But ther ARE some decent fitters out there) If your theory about brick work is correct then by the sounds of it you shouldn't fit a dish near the top of any wall,sorry but experience dictacts otherwsie.........
     
  27. DRGL

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    ps,why do you think Sky dishes are not solid? Wind resistance maybe?.............
     
  28. Nick_UK

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    There are some good fitters, and some bad. The fitter who installed my original Sky box was from a local independent company, and he did a great job. Drip loops on all the entry points, entry holes filled will silicon filler, very neat cabling. He set up the remote control for my TV, and showed me all the basic functions.

    When the installer came to fit Sky+ (a Sky installer), he ran the extra cable alongside the original, and secured it with cable ties in a lot of places. Very few proper cable clips were used. He did set up the Sky+ box properly, though.

    Then we went for multi-room. I think the installers (two lads in their 20's) worked for Sky, but there was no logo on their blue van. They made a total pig's ear of the cabling (an untidy mess), and didn't even bother to set the Sky+ box up. Although the TV was obviously a 16:9 set, they left it set to 4:3.

    It's all the luck of the draw, I'm afraid. There's some professionals, some gifted amateurs, and some plain incompetents out there.
     
  29. Nick_UK

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    One factor, yes. But also makes the dish lighter (reduces shipping costs), cheaper (less metal), and maybe even slightly more attractive.
     

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