QUESTION: Sony XH9505 or OLED TV?

PascalFR

Novice Member
Hi everybody,

I just bought a 55 inch Sony TV 55XH9505 (X950H), and I am both satisfied and a little disappointed. I have had it for a few days and I can still return it. I come a long way, since I had an old 32 inches 720p Sony from 2008 (it would be too long to explain why I kept it for so long! ;-)).

NOTE: I know my post is very long, so you can go directly to the last paragraph (6) if you have no time to read the whole story! Sorry also for my approximate English.

1. WATCHING HABITS: I usually watch movies, documentaries, series, as well as some TV shows and news. No sport, no games. Sources: no blu-rays, only Internet TV and streaming. Since I subscribed to Netflix last year, I've been watching a lot more movies, series, and documentaries than ever before. My wife watches a little bit of everything (Netflix movies & series, news channels, YouTube, etc.) and she also uses TV as a mediacenter for Deezer and such things. To conclude, we also have a 5 year old daughter who watches what you can imagine. :)

2. ROOM: My room can be quite bright sometimes, but there is no direct sunlight. I sometimes watch TV during the day, but I mostly watch IPTV or Netflix at night and in the dark, although rarely in pitch darkness.

3. BUDGET : At the beginning, I didn't want to put more than €1000 or €1100 (£ 850-950), but eventually I bought my Sony €1290 (£1110). And now that I am discovering the joys of having a big screen, I tell myself that such a fantastic experience would have been worth €1500 or €2000 (£1300-1700)! :)

4. OPINION ON THE SONY: Most of the time I find it very good, even excellent, especially on films: the contrast is huge, the colors are very delicately displayed, and the overall rendering is very cinematographic. However, I'm a bit bothered by the blooming, especially in Dolby Vision where it can become quite annoying on some bright scenes, but I may end up by getting used to it. I'm also a bit bothered by the vignetting: although it's barely noticeable in movies / series, it's very visible on solid and light colors. Actually, it's not THAT annoying, but I'm rather surprised that vignetting still exists, especially at this price level. (Surprinsingly, I never noticed any of those issues on my old Sony KDL-32V4500, but I guess they are more noticeable on a big bright screen than on a modest one.)

5. THOUGHTS ON OLED & BURN-IN: Before buying my Sony, I had seen an LG BX and CX, which literally blew me away! In fact, OLED always blows me away, because it seems astonishingly realistic (maybe even too realistic, almost hyper-realistic). However, I have read/seen so much horrible things about burn-in that it took me away from OLED... But eventually, from what I’ve read in the last few days on this forum (after buying the Sony), my fear of burn-in may have been slightly exaggerated.

6. MY QUESTIONS: I know I should (normally) have better picture quality on OLED, so I'm a little tempted to exchange this TV for an OLED (LG 55BX, LG 55CX, Panasonic TX-55HZ1000E , maybe Sony KD55AG9 if it drops below € 2000). However, as my wife (and myself, to a lesser degree) sometimes leaves our TV on for several hours on 24/7 news channels, Youtube, Deezer, etc. and since these channels and apps contain static UI elements and logos, I wonder if burn-in could be a real issue in this use case? Also, as I only watch streaming or Internet TV (no blu-rays), I wonder if I would really be able to appreciate the qualities of OLED, given the non-optimal quality of my sources?

Any thoughts and comments would be welcome! Many thanks in advance for your help!

Pascal
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member

Almost all the threads about OLED BURN IN address problems with C7 and older OLEDs. Rtings.com 's tests are on 2017 outdated TVs.

It has been 3 years since the C8 was released. There are practically zero reports, compared to the millions of OLED TVs sold,of C8s experiencing permanent image retention.

When you look at the number of reports of OLED Burn In occurring on 2018 and newer TVs it appears as if the risk of burn in is about the same on LCD TVs as it is on 2018 and newer OLED TVs. I have seen rare reports of LCDs experiencing Burn In and rare reports of 2018 and newer OLED TVs experiencing Burn In on social media. Adam says rtings.com has recieved a few reports of 2018 OLED experiencing Burn In although he couldn’t provide me with a number, He said rtings.com doesn’t keep quanity data even though this would be the most beneficial piece of information as it would help explain what “possibility” means. When you consider the reports of OLED Burn IN are from social media and the millions of OLED TVs sold the probability of burn in is practically zero for any usage. This has been proven by the millions of tests run by actual OLED TV owners on 2018 and newer OLED TVs over the last three years FOR EVERY TYPE OF USAGE.

Seems like the best scientific evidence is actual performance results of C8 TVs. The only test I have seen run in a lab on C8 and newer TVs is from Vincent Teoh. His test seems to confirm the 3 year test run by millions of OLED owners who haven’t experienced Burn In on there 2018 and newer OLED TVs.

It really doesn't matter what caused the improved substantially with respect to burn in on 2018 and newer OLED TVs. The actual 3 year tests tests run by millions of OLED owners on 2018 and newer TVs show that OLED Burn In is no longer a reasonable concern. "The proof is in the pudding."

With that being said every manufactuer of OLED TVs uses different "software" with the LG supplied panels (hardware). Based on this factor it may have more to do with hardware than software.

The reason LG is the primary supplier of OLED panels is because the manufacturing of OLED panels has many hurdles. If it was easy there would be more OLED panel manufacturers. To have a manufacturing process that creates 100 percent quality panels may have taken some time to perfect. The manufacturing quality (consistency between panels) improvement since 2018 is the main reason the reports of burn in on 2018 and newer OLED TVs is practically zero when compared to the millions of OLEDs sold. On older OLED panels LG has admitted they had some manufacturing discrepancies (info from ratings.com). For this reason I believe the quality of the manufacturing process improved greatly in 2018.

LG has also made some engineering improvements to their panels since 2018. The increase in pixel size (aperture ratio).

Something has greatly reduced the possibility of permanent burn in since 2018. What it is doesn't matter. There have been millions of tests run by actual owners since 2018. These millions of tests cover every possible usage senerio with the results showing that burn in is no longer a reasonable concern for almost any type of usage.

2021 oleds will be very image retention resistant, permanent image retention will be a thing of the past with this new panel technology. See Vincent Teoh explain below.

They do make adjustments to the panels each year to boost durability. The new brighter OLEDs in 2021 are even more durable (part of why they can get brighter).
If anyone is interested, here's a video explaining it:

It shows up close how each pixel of the TV is created, including the tweaks they make to each colour. For example in 2020 they boosted the size of the red, making red more durable. This time in 21 they boost green, and use a different mass (deuterium - a stable isotope of hydrogen with a mass approximately twice that of the usual isotope.) to increase durability.

Since 2018 permanent burn in risk has improved substantially to the point of almost total elimination.
 
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PascalFR

Novice Member
Thanks for the reply, but I have already read this text on another part of the forum.

Based on current knowledge, you are correct that "since 2018 the risk of permanent burns has improved considerably". However, does this really mean that the burn-in has been "completely eliminated" (as you wrote) or that it has only been reduced, so that customers have to wait 1 or 2 more years until it happens?

I have read Rtings tests and I have also watched Vincent Teoh's videos. However, on this forum I also read someone having issues with an LG C9. But the most important (and dreadful) information comes from the French site "LesNumeriques.com", which is a respectable and knowledgeable source of information.

They launched a survey called "Burn-in on OLED TVs of our readers" in December 2019. I summarize the results below:
  • Number of respondents: 18,000
  • Number of OLED TV owners: 7,500
  • Number of OLED owners who have experienced temporary image retention: 650
  • Number of OLED owners who have experienced permanent burn-in: 1,150 = 15.3%
15.3% is a HUGE ratio! Moreover, if you read what the readers wrote on the forum from December 2018 to December 2020, you will see that, while most of the issues have been on LG B6 TVs, there are issues on newer TVs as well.

This article and its comments had a very strong impact on me (maybe too strong!). That's the reason why I'm still a bit worried, even if I am also able to calm down. :cool:

I suggest you take a look at it, if you understand French. I can also translate some parts, if you are interested.
 
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PascalFR

Novice Member

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LCDseeker

Distinguished Member
The risk of burn is still very real and apparent on across all brands. I don't personally subscribe to the theory that newer OLEDS are less likely to have burn in, it's just that they are newer so haven't had the chance to get reports of burn in. When you see owners across the forums with the top end Panasonics and Sony's having burn in that says it all for me. That said, it still appears to be very hit and miss and seems to depend on users own viewing habits and also individual sets. I'd love to try an OLED one day, unless Micro LED takes over, but with young kids I often find the television left on pause and/or programs with logos constantly watched, episode after episode. I just can't take the risk. I have the XH9505 and for me it's the closest you can get to OLED without the worry of burn in, plus you get better motion and HDR performance. As always it comes down to if you can handle the worry of burn in. As Vincent Teoh once likened it to. Would you rather have two minutes with Gal Gadot, or a steady relationship with the girl next door. I think that's a little harsh on both technologies but he's just trying to make a point.
 
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PascalFR

Novice Member
I went with the 9505 to avoid screen burn - hoping it is eradicated by the time I update it next time round.
Thank you David.

Tricky Dilemma. I am blown away by OLED TVs, but it might take a few more years to be sure how reliable they are, as I'm not the kind of guy who changes his TV every 2 years. At the same time, maybe Unopiniated is right: in this case, we are depriving ourselves of the most beautiful image possible, for no good reason!

Unfortunately, from what I've read on this forum, French consumers seems to be far less protected than in UK. In France, I think it's almost impossible to get a free or even a discounted replacement of a product after the 2 years warranty. And I am not sure that any store provide a 5 years warranty which doesn't exclude pixel damage.
 
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PascalFR

Novice Member
The risk of burn is still very real and apparent on across all brands. I don't personally subscribe to the theory that newer OLEDS are less likely to have burn in, it's just that they are newer so haven't had the chance to get reports of burn in. When you see owners across the forums with the top end Panasonics and Sony's having burn in that says it all for me. That said, it still appears to be very hit and miss and seems to depend on users own viewing habits and also individual sets. I'd love to try an OLED one day, unless Micro LED takes over, but with young kids I often find the television left on pause and/or programs with logos constantly watched, episode after episode. I just can't take the risk. I have the XH9505 and for me it's the closest you can get to OLED without the worry of burn in, plus you get better motion and HDR performance. As always it comes down to if you can handle the worry of burn in. As Vincent Teoh once likened it to. Would you rather have two minutes with Gal Gadot, or a steady relationship with the girl next door. I think that's a little harsh on both technologies but he's just trying to make a point.
Thank you for your wise advice. Still hesitating a bit, though... :)
 
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LCDseeker

Distinguished Member
Thank you for your wise advice. Still hesitating a bit, though... :)

The reasons for your hesitation are valid. Plus like you say there seems to be less protection in France and other countries than we have here in the UK. Although no manufacturer covers for burn in in any country, it's just down to individual cases and retailers etc as to whether people get replacements free of charge or are having to pay for the repairs. I've done plenty of side by side comparisons with top end LCD's and OLEDs and there really isn't that much in it, despite what the OLED die hard's would have you believe. You could get an OLED and have many years of problem free viewing, or you might get burn in after just a year or two. Only you can make the call. Good luck.
 
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PascalFR

Novice Member
The reasons for your hesitation are valid. Plus like you say there seems to be less protection in France and other countries than we have here in the UK. Although no manufacturer covers for burn in in any country, it's just down to individual cases and retailers etc as to whether people get replacements free of charge or are having to pay for the repairs. I've done plenty of side by side comparisons with top end LCD's and OLEDs and there really isn't that much in it, despite what the OLED die hard's would have you believe. You could get an OLED and have many years of problem free viewing, or you might get burn in after just a year or two. Only you can make the call. Good luck.
Thanks again!
 
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PascalFR

Novice Member
In fact, I've been also hesitating between the Sony XH9505 and the Samsung Q95T, as my wife has a friend who works at Samsung. So, I could have bought the Q95T for the same price than the Sony (€1290 = £1110). I did not buy it, partly because I saw a Video of Vincent Teoh who said that the Samsung has less blooming but does not respect the image as well as the Sony. (And also because my wife prefers the feet on the Sony... :) )

But, at this time, I didn't know blooming could sometimes be a quite nasty thing. Yesterday night, I watched the beginning of the film "Lost Girls" (on Netflix, in Dolby Vision) and while most scenes where absolutely fine, I remember a scene that was literally spoiled by blooming.

I've also seen that the Sony gets an 8, while the Samsung gets a 9/10 on AVForum's reviews. However, according to Rtings, there is not much difference between the two. So, who must we believe? Is the Samsung really better than the Sony, or not?
 
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LCDseeker

Distinguished Member
In fact, I've been also hesitating between the Sony XH9505 and the Samsung Q95T, as my wife has a friend who works at Samsung. So, I could have bought the Q95T for the same price than the Sony (€1290 = £1110). I did not buy it, partly because I saw a Video of Vincent Teoh who said that the Samsung has less blooming but does not respect the image as well as the Sony. (And also because my wife prefers the feet on the Sony... :) )

But, at this time, I didn't know blooming could sometimes be a quite nasty thing. Yesterday night, I watched the beginning of the film "Lost Girls" (on Netflix, in Dolby Vision) and while most scenes where absolutely fine, I remember a scene that was literally spoiled by blooming.

I've also seen that the Sony gets an 8, while the Samsung gets a 9/10 on AVForum's reviews. However, according to Rtings, there is not much difference between the two. So, who must we believe? Is the Samsung really better than the Sony, or not?

The XH95 is definitely better than the 2020 Samsung's (take a look at the forums for all the issues with the screens). Although I do agree that the feet on the XH95 are poor, but you can always buy a central stand. Samsung's also don't have DV which is a huge miss by them considering how much content is now available in DV and how good it looks on the XH95.
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
But the most important (and dreadful) information comes from the French site "LesNumeriques.com", which is a respectable and knowledgeable source of information.

They launched a survey called "Burn-in on OLED TVs of our readers" in December 2019. I summarize the results below:
  • Number of respondents: 18,000
  • Number of OLED TV owners: 7,500
  • Number of OLED owners who have experienced temporary image retention: 650
  • Number of OLED owners who have experienced permanent burn-in: 1,150 = 15.3%
15.3% is a HUGE ratio! Moreover, if you read what the readers wrote on the forum from December 2018 to December 2020, you will see that, while most of the issues have been on LG B6 TVs, there are issues on newer TVs as well.

This article and its comments had a very strong impact on me (maybe too strong!). That's the reason why I'm still a bit worried, even if I am also able to calm down. :cool:

I suggest you take a look at it, if you understand French. I can also translate some parts, if you are interested.
There is also a survey in Europe started by GadgetObsessed on AVForums (social media) that shows 35 percent of 2017 OLEDs experienced Burn In.


Thanks for reading "my opinions". I will have to add these two polls to my list of how people come to their conclusions in the OLED Burn In (Developing your opinion) post. When I look at all these points I come to the conclusion that the risk of OLED Burn In is practically zero for a OLED that I buy. Everybody has to come to their own conclusion since it is their purchase. Good Luck
 
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zubeir

Well-known Member
No regrets moving from a Panasonic Plasma to the Sony, although I was dead set on buying a OLED only.
Also the recent video from Vincent Teoh about OLEDs not being bright enough to display HDR properly has hit a nerve with some owners.
 
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Gary65

Active Member
I have an oled in the bedroom and not even a hint of burn in and I have a 65 xh9505 and it is a great tv but as soon as I can sell mine I will be going back to oled , there is something about an oled picture that an led can’t match
 
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LCDseeker

Distinguished Member
I have an oled in the bedroom and not even a hint of burn in and I have a 65 xh9505 and it is a great tv but as soon as I can sell mine I will be going back to oled , there is something about an oled picture that an led can’t match

What will you be getting?
 
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