Question on Electricians and EIC, EICR

NeverEden

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Hi, In summary:

1) we hired a qualified electrician to convert our pendant rose lights into spot lights
2) upon inspection he noticed our fusebox is non compliant, as in not tidy, not fire sealed, its not been changed for over 20 years either.
3) he said he cannot sign off the work unless its compliant
4) upon further inspection he tested the sockets and lights and noticed our main house has 2 wire connections so further said he cannot provide an EIC unless this is done but can give an EICR with C2 against these.

So we agreed to get the fusebox sorted to be compliant and he agreed to do the spotlights but said he will mark the EICR with C2 so the rewiring from 2 to 3 wire will need to be done eventually too. How accurate is this ? Also will it matter if it comes to selling the house?

Edit: 2 to 3 wire meaning the lightning circuit needs an earth connection. House is pre 1960s so didnt have it originally.
 
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If your lighting circuits are missing cpc's (the 3rd wire) then you can get round it by fitting notice stickers at the consumer unit, fitting plastic face plates with nylon screws and only have class II (double insulated) light fittings.

C2 would be advisable but if you have had a new consumer unit fitted then all circuits should now be protected by an RCD, and if you can satisfy the points listed above, I'd probably give it a C3.

I'm now ignoring this thread before it turns into a diy Dave free for all. :thumbsup:
 
I am not an electrician but I did look at having my consumer unit changed recently and from what I had been told basically you are not allowed plastic units anymore, it has to be non combustible (i.e. metal) or if you keep plastic unit then it has to be in a fireproof housing. If you already have a metal housing then you should be fine ?

BTW, you might want to post this on the DIY forum.
 
Consumer unit replacement to latest Regs is NOT retrorespective, so was probably not required.
 
If your lighting circuits are missing cpc's (the 3rd wire) then you can get round it by fitting notice stickers at the consumer unit, fitting plastic face plates with nylon screws and only have class II (double insulated) light fittings.

C2 would be advisable but if you have had a new consumer unit fitted then all circuits should now be protected by an RCD, and if you can satisfy the points listed above, I'd probably give it a C3.

I'm now ignoring this thread before it turns into a diy Dave free for all. :thumbsup:
Thanks @leo79. So lets say i have a new fuse box fitted. Im told 18th edition metal rcd, but choose to keep the same lights and switches. Ie. Metal. What implications does this have in terms of selling the house later etc. When is this basically going to be a problem aside from if theres a spark or fire?
 
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With no Earth wire in the lighting circuit and metal fittings and faceplates there is a DANGER OF DEATH from electctrocution. If you are not rewiring to include the Earth wire, you should replace all metal faceplates and fittings with plastic and light fittings to Class 2 (double insulated).

The latest consumer unit will not protect you and members of your household. Your electrician should have advised you to do this if metal fittings are present and not being replaced or rewired.
 
I'm now ignoring this thread before it turns into a diy Dave free for all. :thumbsup:
As my name is Dave I object to this :)

As leo has intimated, any major changes need a qualified electrician.

Us DIY types can mostly only change like for like.
 
With no Earth wire in the lighting circuit and metal fittings and faceplates there is a DANGER OF DEATH from electctrocution. If you are not rewiring to include the Earth wire, you should replace all metal faceplates and fittings with plastic and light fittings to Class 2 (double insulated).

The latest consumer unit will not protect you and members of your household. Your electrician should have advised you to do this if metal fittings are present and not being replaced or rewired.
Yes and thats what my original question was alluding towards. Is what he is saying legitimate. Ie. I need rewiring plus new consumer unit in order to get an EIC. But my question is without an EIC what legal impact will that hold when selling the house ?
 
Yes and thats what my original question was alluding towards. Is what he is saying legitimate. Ie. I need rewiring plus new consumer unit in order to get an EIC. But my question is without an EIC what legal impact will that hold when selling the house ?
Can't help myself.

Any decent sparky would advise to have the lighting circuit rewired and a new consumer unit fitted (you could fit a 2 way consumer unit just for this circuit but why bother, you may as well just replace the whole lot).
So, yes, what he has said is legitimate.

EICR's are not a legal requirement, however, estate agents and buyers do request them.
If he's carrying out an EICR, he's correct in giving it a C2, however some could argue that a C3 could be recorded if you ensured all points are achieved in previous post.
However, I wouldn't really argue with any electrician giving it a C2, it's their name on the cert.

The only impact this would have on you is potential buyers trying to knock a few quid off when making an offer.
 
Can't help myself.

Any decent sparky would advise to have the lighting circuit rewired and a new consumer unit fitted (you could fit a 2 way consumer unit just for this circuit but why bother, you may as well just replace the whole lot).
So, yes, what he has said is legitimate.

EICR's are not a legal requirement, however, estate agents and buyers do request them.
If he's carrying out an EICR, he's correct in giving it a C2, however some could argue that a C3 could be recorded if you ensured all points are achieved in previous post.
However, I wouldn't really argue with any electrician giving it a C2, it's their name on the cert.

The only impact this would have on you is potential buyers trying to knock a few quid off when making an offer.
Thank you for this. Yeh we took the plunge seeing aa the house is getting done and replastered it's not something we want looming in the back of our heads. May as well get it done and take a financial hit now
 
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Thank you for this. Yeh we took the plunge seeing a the house is getting done and replastered it's not something we want looming in the back of our heads. May as well get it done and take a financial hit now

Good choice :thumbsup:
 
Are you moving or staying?

I think or hope what you are saying has been lost in translation between you and your electrician.

If your having some alterations done to your electrical wiring, it only requires a MINOR ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION WORKS CERTIFICATE (sorry about caps, I cut and paste). It does not require an EIC.

A previously installed CU, does not have to be replaced because its not compliant with current regulations. It would be highlighted on an EICR though.

That said, if your house was mine, I would consider a rewire and replacement CU; much like people have plush new kitchens, bathrooms & new windows installed.

Electrical Safety First have a Best Practise Guide on replacing CU's with circuits without a cpc, indent 10.
 
Are you moving or staying?

I think or hope what you are saying has been lost in translation between you and your electrician.

If your having some alterations done to your electrical wiring, it only requires a MINOR ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION WORKS CERTIFICATE (sorry about caps, I cut and paste). It does not require an EIC.

A previously installed CU, does not have to be replaced because its not compliant with current regulations. It would be highlighted on an EICR though.

That said, if your house was mine, I would consider a rewire and replacement CU; much like people have plush new kitchens, bathrooms & new windows installed.

Electrical Safety First have a Best Practise Guide on replacing CU's with circuits without a cpc, indent 10.
Yeh staying for the foreseeable future. We got the CU replaced and cleaned up as the 1st stage. 2nd stage is rewire of the lighting circuit with earth. Previous being largely unsafe and a mess !

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1628370583981.png
 
I have just seen this question on a different forum and am puzzled as I have similar questions to the OP.
Q.
I've just bought new LED ceiling spot lights that are double insulated, but I have a standard electrical system with an earth connection, can I safely fit the new light ?
A. you will need to terminate the earth wire in to something like a junction box. What you can’t do is connect your existing earth wire to the new light. It has to be fitted without an earth. Terminating the earth in to a junction box in the ceiling space above the light should be fine.

My question is: Is that correct? why would you not connect the earth from the light fitting (if metal) to the earth in the ceiling rose if the wiring had it?

https://accounts.google.com/Service...n-GB&next=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DfIsPqE337vs&hl=en-GB
 
A double insulated fitting will not have an earth connection, but there's nothing to stop you bodging a connection to it using a crimp connection to part of the metal housing. Just avoid having the earth wire floating around where it could touch a live wire and trip everything out with a loud bang!!
 
You should NOT connect a cpc (circuit protective conductor or earth) to any Class 2 equipment. Otherwise it can import an electric potential that does not need to be there. The manufacturers instructions will state, that their Class 2 appliances should not be earthed.

Some manufacturers will provide a terminal to 'park' the cpc; if not the cpc should be terminated in a joint box for example, from which the device can be fed with a suitable cable.
 
Yeh staying for the foreseeable future. We got the CU replaced and cleaned up as the 1st stage. 2nd stage is rewire of the lighting circuit with earth. Previous being largely unsafe and a mess !
Arrgh, well you did the best thing and cleaned up the 'mess'. It needed doing. Get the lighting circuits replaced, and that should sort things out, and make life easier for when you do decide to sell.

Keep you EIC and notification certificate in a safe place, for that eventuality.

Is that a SWA cable below your CU. If so how is it terminated? Can't quite see in your picture.
 
Arrgh, well you did the best thing and cleaned up the 'mess'. It needed doing. Get the lighting circuits replaced, and that should sort things out, and make life easier for when you do decide to sell.

Keep you EIC and notification certificate in a safe place, for that eventuality.

Is that a SWA cable below your CU. If so how is it terminated? Can't quite see in your picture.
Yeh thats going to go to a double socket. The pain point in this was we got the entire house renovated and now getting the rewiring done. Luckily the hallway and one of the bedrooms wasnt done so theyll be using those to do the chasing etc.
 
Yeh thats going to go to a double socket. The pain point in this was we got the entire house renovated and now getting the rewiring done. Luckily the hallway and one of the bedrooms wasnt done so theyll be using those to do the chasing etc.
This is a lesson learnt, hopefully others might gain from your misfortune.

I've a feeling the end of the swa has not been terminated properly - Is that a SWA cable below your CU. If so how is it terminated? Can't quite see in your picture of the end below your CU.
 
This is a lesson learnt, hopefully others might gain from your misfortune.

I've a feeling the end of the swa has not been terminated properly - Is that a SWA cable below your CU. If so how is it terminated? Can't quite see in your picture of the end below your CU.
That goes to the other side of the house. Essentially a granny annexe with its own CU.
 
You should NOT connect a cpc (circuit protective conductor or earth) to any Class 2 equipment. Otherwise it can import an electric potential that does not need to be there. The manufacturers instructions will state, that their Class 2 appliances should not be earthed.

Some manufacturers will provide a terminal to 'park' the cpc; if not the cpc should be terminated in a joint box for example, from which the device can be fed with a suitable cable.
Thank You for confirming that.
 
Does it have a gland on the end of it, underneath your Cu?
That side of the house is a new build essentially so went through the whole build according to regs in 2012
 

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