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Question of resolution

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Cliff, Jul 29, 2003.

  1. Cliff

    Cliff
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    Looking into a Plasma myself, but looking at the specs for average price units I see they are 480 pixals vertical. Surely this is OK for NTSC but for PAL we need 576? What's the situation here?
    The Pioneers and others that have a higher res (presumable to cope with HDTV in the States jump up in price to £5000 or more.
    Any comment?
    Does Mr Normal just accept 480 lines!
     
  2. GAmbrose

    GAmbrose
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    It downscales Pal resolution to 480 lines, so you lose 16% of the picture or something.

    I don't watch much TV, have NTSC consoles and mostly have NTSC DVD's so it's not a problem for me.

    Gary A
     
  3. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    Its strange; NTSC R1 fans say they dont see much difference in res, but it's another story when PAL is downscaled to 480 lines.

    My opinion, don't worry too much about resolution when it comes to 42inch plasmas, worry about black levels, shades of grey, colour, processing...
     
  4. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Ahh.... this old chestnet :rotfl:

    In my opinion 16.7% of picture is 16.7% of picture. I want to see what is broadcast or read by my DVD player, especially at a few thousand pound a display.

    Yes, do obviously look at the other factors:- processing, colours, future proofing.

    Youll see the Pioneer 433-MXE with a 1024x768 resolutions, 832 Shades grey, 576 Million Colours, 10 Bit Video Processing, modular future proof input board and costs approx £3.5k :smashin:
     
  5. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    Youll also see the Panny 6 with 1500 Shades grey, 1070 Million Colours, DVI with HDCP, PIP, 4000:1 CR and costs approx £3k :smashin:
     
  6. tbrar

    tbrar
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    .......and 480 lines of resolution :rolleyes:

    The best thing to do is grab some DVD's, go have a look for yourself, its all subjective and what you consider important
     
  7. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    Yep, some like the panny (me and many others) and some like the pio (tbrar and many others).

    We are lucky that places like av-sales has these two popular plasmas next to each other where they can be viewed in ideal conditions.
     
  8. GAmbrose

    GAmbrose
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    Where you can see the superior Panasonic you mean?
    :D

    Gary A
     
  9. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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  10. RossC

    RossC
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    Ok, here's a probably simplistic question - so no laughing - but what is actually in that 16.7% of the picture that is missing?

    Is it a general reduction in resolution or some actual part of the picture (top for instance) that disappears? i.e what will I actually not see with a 480 line display? Or is it just overall less detail?
     
  11. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Yes, you will see the "whole" picture - it won't cut the edges off - but with a bit less detail. It will probably be less sharp, too. How objectionable this is will depend strongly on the quality of the image scaler.
     
  12. tbrar

    tbrar
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    It is a very subjective feild. Loads of guys on the forum dont find it an issue, which is fine. Then there are others that do, like me.

    I really dont want to pay the sort of sums were talking about and not get the best level of detail from the core component of my set up - the display, but thats my opinion.

    I also feel that this will be of increasing importance. With a standard defintion display and a 720p source for example, suddenly you are loosing 34% of picture (detail).

    It is best to view, with your own DVD's, make a judgement call for the future and your requirments.
     
  13. steve36

    steve36
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    Tbar,
    So maybe the best solution for people that like the new panasonic is to hope the new 'HD' panny is good and arrives soon.
    The only problem is when I tried to find the series-5 'HD' I got the impression it was not generally available in the 'UK' as we do not have a signal (today/this year....), that can use it properly. Hey, it's only 16% missing !!!!!

    I also wonder what the price difference may be....

    Steve.
     
  14. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Hi Steve,

    I actually hunted around and considered a TH42PHD5 when evaluating displays (it was between that and my MXE).

    I chose the Pioneer for a number of reasons, all of which are not a factor with the the new 'High Definition' Panasonic 6 (ie DVI-HDCP/Video Processing-Color Range/Silent Running).

    If like me you want a HD display, I would wait for both the Panny HD, as it promises to be an excellent display and the imminent Pioneer PDP-434HDE, which again looks the business.

    But there again there is the NEC MP4, oh and also the new JVC that people have posted about.........


    Good Luck !!!!! :devil:


    Tony
     
  15. dejongj

    dejongj
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    The question is tbrar....where do you get a true 720p source in the UK or outside for a matter of fact. It may very well be that you are worried about loosing 34% of picture detail that was actually interpolated and thus not present in the first place.

    I am with you on some of your previous comments that like yourself I prefer to see the material at its original resolution and not scaled either way. Or should I say at the resolution the transfer to PAL or NTSC has been made, as only sources digitally recorded have an original resolution measured in pixels. That is why I am still quite happy with my 800x600 native resolution projector as it is capable of re-producing ALL the official european broadcast and worldwide DVD resolution standards.

    Cheers,

    Jean-Paul
     
  16. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    What's the horizontal resolution of a 720p signal? 1280? If so then squeezing that down to 853x480 means that you've only got 409,440 pixels instead of 921,600. I make that a loss of 55.6%.
     
  17. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Hi Jean Paul,

    Firstly, I dont want to get into an exchange on resolution which has been done countless times before. I made my decision based upon certain criteria, you obviosuly did the same. Thats great.

    True 720p broadcasts are not as you stated avaialble in the U.K. Nor are they likely to be in the mainstream for years. Are they available else where?, well yes. For instance, ABC uses 720p HD broadcasts, while CBS transmits in 1080i HD in the U.S.

    If you want a Broadcast HD source in the UK soon, you will be able to get one by subscription from January 1st 2004 - its up to you. These are broadcasts sources.

    DVD sources on the other hand, I feel, will be more prevalent. You can by players that output a scaled standard definition DVD's to 720p/1080 source allready. The recent T2Extreme is an indication of whats to come from a software perspective.

    The piont is there is a demand for HD - and manufacturers are obliging.

    As always, its entirely up to the individual.


    Tony
     
  18. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Nicoloas, fair point but its actually the vertical resolution that counts (number of horizontal lines counted vertically).

    But thats a different matter........... :eek:


    Tony
     
  19. dejongj

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    Agreed :)

    That is exactly my point, we are talking theoretical loss as these resolutions as it wasn't there in the first place as it will be scaled up. Currently there is not official HD standard for DVD, but of-course as you pointed out before that is not to say there won't be one.

    Not having seen T2Extreme or knowing the details, yet knowing the age of the T2 original footage it would have been highly unlikely that it was shot on HD Capable Camera equipment. So it would be interesting to understand how it was digitized. Was it digitized using HD Capable equipment? Anyway the point is, the reproduction can only bring out the detail that was recorded in the first place.....

    Looking at todays lifespan of electronic equipment I would not be planning to keep my equipment in use for more than 3 years at a time. As such I have learned to stop buying the ultimate high-end with features that aren't available yet, as buy the time they are available to use I would want to upgrade anyway. That is a very personal opinion of-course. But I doubt how many of the enthousiasts on this forum are planning to keep their £5000+ plasma's for lets say the next 10-20 years just like my parents did with their first colour tv....

    JP
     
  20. tbrar

    tbrar
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    JP - in that time span Id hope to be viewing a three dimensional holographic type movie, which would allow me to participate !! :rotfl:

    The point is we are not talking that time span we are talking now if you want it and certainly over the next couple of years it will become more mainstream.

    You may want to (can afford to) upgrade your few thousand pound display device every 3 years, for others this is not a viable option.


    Tony
     
  21. dejongj

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    No I realise it may not be viable for everyone, however for me this is cheaper than buying a new lightbulb for my projector :-(

    Now regarding this hologram, you must be in with my customers. I have been doing some workshops regarding a CRM and customer interaction strategy and some of the board level strategist are convinced that we should allow for customer interaction in 2010 by 3d hologram technicolor displays....Ah well I get what I deserve when I asked them to think outside the box. And they weren't even smoking some of that special Amsterdam stuff... ;-)

    Cheers,

    Jean-Paul
     
  22. tbrar

    tbrar
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    :smashin:


    Tony
     

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