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Question For The Optima Owners....

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by zenji9, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. zenji9

    zenji9
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    Hi folks. I'm very interested in getting an RD50, but have a quick question -

    I've noticed a lot of people in other threads (mainly Sagem 45's...) having problems with audio sync between DLPs and AV amps. I can't remember ANY of the Optima owners ever metioning this problem (?)

    I'm assuming you guys have surround sound systems (I seem to remember that U do..) so do you have any probs? And if so, how do you sort them - as I may have to upgrade my cheapo amp depending on what u say.... !

    Cheers
     
  2. St_ve

    St_ve
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    I know there was one person who returned his RD50 because of lip sych.
    I've had problems with about 3 or 4 programs since i've had the set nearly 4 months now. The set's own speakers seem fine no lip sych with Telewest cable, broadcast TV
    or connected to my PC using my freeview digital TV card.
    It's the same for for my old Sherwood AV amp i bought aeons ago from Richer sounds no problems. Never had lip sych with DVD's.
     
  3. zenji9

    zenji9
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    Thanks for that Steve, - lip-sync drives my missus crazy, I'd never hear the end of it!

    - bang goes my excuse for a new amp tho ....! :(
     
  4. St_ve

    St_ve
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  5. zenji9

    zenji9
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    Cheers Steve,

    I've been an avid 'lurker' in this forum for a while now, it's been a valuable source of info.

    I was looking into Plasma and LCD when I saw a Sagem50 running a HiDef demo - ever since then i've been trying to decide which DLP to buy....

    Each manufacturer seems to do some things well, but theres always a 'but'...

    - I looked at the Sagem50 - No HDCP
    - Had high hopes for the Sagem45 - too many problems reported, and not AS impressed when I saw it in the flesh..
    - Not impressed by the Samsung sets (46 or 50)
    - Thought the Toshiba 46 would be the 'jack of all trades' but I wouldn't be able to handle the picture quality issues...

    So that leaves the RD50.... the NTSC shouldn't be a problem (I have a HTPC) and from the multitude of posts, it seems to be the best buy - And it isn't manufactured by Sagem...!

    Keep up the good work guys!!
     
  6. St_ve

    St_ve
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    Optoma RD50 + HTPC via DVI + Saving Private Ryan with DTS sound track and a bag of popcorn = Heaven :smashin:
     
  7. soni

    soni
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    I would seriously demo this set before buying it - as i travelled to Watford from Kent yesterday (i also wanted this set as i've just managed to get a full refund on the Tosh) but was shocked to find it had the exact same problems with blurring as the Tosh. Apart from the blurring and NTSC problem, its a much better looking set in the flesh, as its not jet black as it looks in photos on the net, its got a kind of greyish flec to it. The black level seems slightly better than on the Tosh - but apart from that it looks exactly the same PQ wise as the Tosh - as i said in another post - if you took the frame away and only had the screen - i would have thought it was the Tosh i was watching. It really is that close. With it having the same problem, i obviously couldn't justify the purchase. The salesman was even shocked to see the blurring - as he had never seen it before - its the sort of thing that unless its pointed out to you - you will not notice it until its to late! You would certainly not see it on a demo unless you know what your looking for. But once you get it home, and start watching TV, you'll notice a type of fizzing over characters, landscape, anything thats on the screen basically, and at first you'll think its a poor quality feed, until you watch DVD's and notice its on them as well.

    I tried three DVD's and as soon as i noticed it had the blurring problem, i couldn't hide my dissapointment as i was really pi**ed off, i was really looking forward to purchasing it, i had driven for about 1 1/2 hours! :mad: He was gobsmacked to see it had a problem with panning, and once he noticed it he replayed the scenes as he couldn't believe it. Especially The Day After Tommorrow, he was gobsmacked. Then he said to me - 'well its only when its panning it has the problem, but when the panning finishes and the camera locks on, its allright' - but how can you justify purchasing a TV based on that - if a TV can't pan then its obviously not fit for purpose - surely! I then put The Fast & Furious in, and HE picked up on the high level of noise whilst panning on the cars, and he then told me that he's got a superbit version behind the counter, he put that in and that also had the exact same noise. The DVD player linked to the RD50 in the shop was a £1000.00 Arcam via HDMI - DVI, i have also experienced it on a £600 Denon 2910 linked via HDMI - HDMI on the Tosh. If a £1000 Arcam can't sought it out - then what hope have you got.

    The blurring is like a strong fizzing over anything be it characters, landscape etc, but if you don't mind not seeing things during panning, then the RD50 and the Tosh's are probably the best sets currently available - detail is fantastic on both.

    Take a look at the following picture that i took whilst at the shop!
     

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  8. St_ve

    St_ve
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    Soni the only thing i can think of that might be causing what you see is the HDMI to DVI cable .Let us know what scenes to look for in the fast & furious you did tell me to look but i don't want to watch the whole movie.

    What camera are u getting then Razor?
     
  9. St_ve

    St_ve
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    Soni i see what u mean now if i view your picture at 300% the RD 50 screen is all blocky it doesn't look nice at all even the black bars on the screen above & below the picture are blocky i think what u have is catching i'm starting to see blocky bits in the shop now even the carpet is crawling with them. I remember in another thread when i said the Tosh had problems with skin tones you put up a picture of someone in a hat & ski mask at sunset at least i think it was sunset his face was all red.
    You've also said the Tosh was fine & then changed your mind, you had problems with blurs & then u did'nt before finally deciding you did. :suicide:
     
  10. Gregory

    Gregory
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    Answer to the original question re. lip-sync is that a delay between the video feed and the frame display is very usual for DLP and plasma sets - whilst the electronic gizmo's inside work out the best way to display the picture to minimise the type of effects that can occur (have a look at a poor plasma to see them!). This delay is very visible as the picture turns up after the sound - this is not what people's brains are wired for (sound travels slower than light, so people are used to hearing something slightly after they see it and matching it up - but not the other way around). The delay varies from multiple frames (huge, astonishingly annoying) to pretty small (one frame or about 1/25 of a second). Different people are differently sensitive - I know it's there and find it slightly annoying - my wife heard it instantly, and absolutely can't stand it. So, many sets include an audio delay to compensate - I belive that the RD50 does this.
    However, if you are watching from an external source (DVD/Sky/freeview) and have split the sound out (e.g. via an AV amp etc.) then the television cannot do the adjustment itself and if you want to correct you then need an AV amp into which you can dial a delay. These are more expensive, but IMO are part of the necessary overall purchase price of an AV set-up and need to be priced for (so I got a Yamaka DSPAX750 which can do about 125ms delay of you want & have had no issues). One alternative that is decidedly NOT a hi-fi answer (and throws surround-sound away I think) would be to use the audio-out RCA sockets on the back of the set - these are often also delayed - hence you could take the audio from DVD->TV->amp->speakers.
    Cheers
    Greg
     
  11. zenji9

    zenji9
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    Cheers Gregory - very interesting

    Guess I may have to look @ another amp after all!!
     
  12. St_ve

    St_ve
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    [text removed by Nigel]

    I have only used Scart connections & the DVI with a PC.
    All the sources i use with Scart i let the RD50's Faroudja scale the signal up to 720p ( i have to no option)
    A lot of DVD players suffer from something called macroblocking when i first got my RD50 i was looking for the best DVD player to go with it & the Denon 3910 if my memory serves me right is about the only player that doesn't show macroblocking. Does the Denon 2910 have the option to turn of upscalling & let the TV do it.?
    mrmoo seems happy with his Tosh but uses a HTPC not a DVD player
    I believe the RD50 must have a newer Faroudja upscaller than your Denon 2910 & what you have been seeing on your Tosh & the RD50 is to do with macroblocking.
    It's only a theory at the moment let's see if we can prove or disprove it :)Link to a discussion of the Faroudja processor AV forums
     
  13. St_ve

    St_ve
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    You could take you amp along when you demo the RD50 to see if it copes.
    If you use a PC Theartetek has an option to adjust sound synch but i've never had to use it.
    You'll probably be fine with your AV amp mines nothing special a
    Sherwood RD 6103R i bought in Richer Sounds years ago sounds very good though.:)

    Here's a review i came across online this morning Digital Home Magazines review of Optoma RD50 :)
    There are a couple of things that seem different on my RD50
    they mention having to aim the remote directly at the set while if i aim anywhere within 30 degrees of the set it's fine.
    The preset picture settings are very good but i would have said they operated over a fine rather than a coarse range.
    They also mention that the mirrors in the DMD switch 50 times a second this is true if the picture is showing a pure white or black otherwise they are switching thousands of times a second to produce the different shades in the picture.:)
     
  14. Razor

    Razor
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    The optoma remote is slow and not very responsive, Id give it a 4 out of 10. It looks cheap to. Luckly I use a Philips Pronto, so there is no probs there. :)
     
  15. St_ve

    St_ve
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    I wonder if they have improved the remote with later set's, mine was delievered Christmas Eve.
     
  16. soni

    soni
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    I didn't say its pants [edit]... the set is good but not that much better than the Tosh. That doesn't make it pants - the Tosh is a bloody good set apart from the blurring - and i just wanted to stress that the Optoma isn't without its blurring problems either. Maybe i look at things a bit closer than the average Joe, maybe you don't and thats why you haven't noticed it. There maybe others that won't notice it either - but i'll lay money that the more owners that come about - the more reports about it you'll hear. You've got a decent set there Steve - and its like rainbows - if you don't notice them then don't go looking for them. [edit]
     
  17. KableMan

    KableMan
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    Hey my post was much longer over on the 46WM48P Owners only thread :smashin:

    I think mrmoo may have hit on something over on his new thread:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206572

    There must be something in this as so many people see them and so many don't that it could be made worse by a similar effect to rainbows and the individual person's eye. I also think this is part of the problem - we are all so passionate about what we see and don't see.

    [edited]

    Cheers
    KableMan
     
  18. St_ve

    St_ve
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    I don't know much about DVD players from personal experience but what i have learned is from a very good site in America it has comprehensive reviews of most DVD players .Here is a link to a Benchmark review of DVD players from 2000 to the present. Click on the banner at the top of the page to go to the home site
    Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

    And from the same site a Rainbow Simulation
     

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