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Question for Piers and Gordon re. Panny/Pio Blacks

scrowe

Well-known Member
There's more than the usual commentary on the merits of the top 2 screens and black levels currently.

I'm wondering if Piers and Gordon would be prepared to give some trusted technical comment, not asking for endorsement but just their experiences, as I'm sure they see many panels and TV's in their travels, and it is their livelihood in ensuring they are steup for optimum viewing quality and experience.

Here's a few questions :-

1. As part of an ISF calibration how much work goes into setting up blacks or greyscale? Are they really that bad out of the box, and does ISF give significant improvements that just aren't anywhere near possible with user controls?

2. It's well documented that Pioneer have always struggled with black detail up against Panasonic. Is that your experience, and does an ISF-calibrated Panny vs ISF-calibrated Pio still leave significant differences in comparing their black detail response?

3. With the Pio 6th generation offering ISF day and night viewing options, does that mean that lighting and viewing environment have a 'major' effect on Black levels and colour. Surely your technical doohickeys are designed to measure and correct the exact correct settings, or do the doohickeys themselves interact with the lighting and environment?

4. Do you have personal opinions on the Pio vs. Panny debate, or are you of the opinion that it is completely subjective and each to their own?
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
I also have a question to add!

If you are suppose to calibrate the display every couple of months due to decay, where does this leave you with ISF?

Would the ISF setup be good for a time limit, and how long?

Would it be just a case of recalibrating the Brightness and contrast ourself and colours would not need any more adjustment?

Thanks.
 

Gordon @ Convergent AV

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
First: DRHTPC: You are not supposed to re-calibrate your display every couple of months....if a plasma has a greyscale change that is noticeable after a few months (After initial bed in period....and even that I do not believe is that noticeable) then I would suggest something is wrong......

scrowe: The issues with the Pioneers have not been detail in dark areas but rather that the over all raised level of black itself leads to a washed out, flat looking image when viewing low average picture level content. imho. That's the reason I sold my 433 MXE and got a Panasonic. Of course, the Panasonic has some other issues....

I've only briiefly seen the new 6th gen models at CEDIA USA so can't really comment on what they are like compared to Panny equivalent. I hope to see one soon.

The ISF day and night modes have been the subject of discussion in hidden ISF forums. To me there is a "correct" mode and a lets make it look not unacceptable in bright daylight mode.....In all honesty the most, indeed probably only, change you'd get on a DAYLIGHT mode is that the brightness may be raised to allow you to see detail in dark scenes which may be washed out by sunlight. With plasma I tend to calibrate so that the thing is working at its best in normal evening, low light viewing conditions. With plasma if you turn up brightness to combat light you will probably just end up seeing lots of nasty noise that will look even worse than if you just crushed it out.

Hope this is some use.

Gordon
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
First: DRHTPC: You are not supposed to re-calibrate your display every couple of months....if a plasma has a greyscale change that is noticeable after a few months (After initial bed in period....and even that I do not believe is that noticeable) then I would suggest something is wrong......
It was just something i read in the forums or was it on a calibration disk commentry.

Surely though you would require a recalibration at some point as the plasma decays?
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
Gordon @ Convergent AV said:
With plasma I tend to calibrate so that the thing is working at its best in normal evening, low light viewing conditions. With plasma if you turn up brightness to combat light you will probably just end up seeing lots of nasty noise that will look even worse than if you just crushed it out.
Isn't it funny how you if you look back through the projector forums over the years the one thing they all say is I wish I could have a rear projector set up so I could have ambient lighting, then read the plasma forums and everyone wants to watch in pitch black and then moans about a plasmas short falls! :)

I think what you said about crushed blacks is spot on, slightly crushed blacks will never annoy you as much as noise, because you don't really know if it is crushed, unless it is a demo disc you watch over and over again. Where as an image with loads of noise is obvious, or one without blacks, again you can tell far easier that an image is washed out than you can an image is crushing blacks slightly.
 

Gordon @ Convergent AV

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Dr: Phosphor decay in a plasma that is enough to cause a visible shift in greyscale is going to require several thousand hours viewing. I onl y checked one of my plamsa's from new to when I sold it on. I htiink it was sold with around1000hrs...no change from when it was at 200hrs....and the change from when it was out of the box to 200 hrs was measureable but at the limits of noticeable by eyesight

Gordon
 
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