Question for Fitness/Gym people

bongo123

Active Member
After coming to the conclusion that i was putting on to much weight, drinking far to often and eating all the wrong but delicious foods i decided to hit the gym on the advice of a few workmates (they told me its great fun, personally i find it a complete nightmare but I'm determined to stick it out). I was at one point up to near 15stone+, I'm 6ft and was getting quite the beer belly, so it had to go.

My routine is i run for 2miles:boring: (20mins @ 6.5mph) then do 20mins on the cross trainer:mad: then 7 different weight training thingymabobs:suicide:, I've been doing this 5days a week mon-fri right after work for the last few weeks.

I've lost about half a stone but was wondering when if keeping with the above routine and eating sensibly during the week that i can expect to see some major changes to ones bod. I look a bit slimmer, but I'm still waiting on the Schwarzenegger arms if you know what i mean.

Also is it ok that on the weekends i tend to not follow the special K breakfast, cereal lunch and healthy dinner, i.e. Mc'Ds / KFC / Beer... but only on the Saturday, sun I'm kinda back to normal, would doing this have an adverse effect on my weight loss / body beautiful attempt? or am i ok with my 1 day a week pig out.

Thanks for any advice:thumbsup:
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
If you want to see muscles, you need to strip fat, simple as. To strip fat, you need a strict diet.

But the biggest problem, is that, if you find the gym boring, you won't be putting 100% effort into it, so are essientially wasting your time.

Go and find a sport that you like, and put the hours into that instead.

Oh, and there's no need to train 5 days a week. :)
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
Everyone's body is different.

I have the opposite problem in that I simply cannot put weight on. I'm 35 years old, 5'7 and just over 9 stone. I eat pretty much what I like and still look like a wire coat hanger.

However I do go to the gym purely to stay healthy, and I think 2 or 3 times a week is more than enough to maintain a good fitness level.

Different people also develop muscle more easily in different parts of their body. I've tried developing my pectoral muscles with absolutely no success, but I've got biceps to rival Arnie... and I don't have to work on them at all.

Basically I don't think there's an answer. Just aim to stay healthy is my advice. 2 or 3 times a week at the gym is enough.
Your body will take on the size and shape it is meant to be.

All just my opinion of course.
 

bongo123

Active Member
If you want to see muscles, you need to strip fat, simple as. To strip fat, you need a strict diet.

But the biggest problem, is that, if you find the gym boring, you won't be putting 100% effort into it, so are essientially wasting your time.

Go and find a sport that you like, and put the hours into that instead.

Oh, and there's no need to train 5 days a week. :)

I do find the cardio stuff exceedingly boring but believe me i put 110% effort into it and afterwards can hardly get my breath, i also up the speed / effort level to keep my Heart rate high so I'm not wasting my time. As for the 5 days a week I'm doing that in order to get slimmer faster if that makes sense, i intend to cut down to 3 times a week once i think i look good and feel healthy, at the minute i feel like an 80y.o. man.
 

Mr Incredible

Distinguished Member
Diet and exercise are very personal things and what works for one doesn't work for another.

A few years ago I found that a combination of regular exercise (mostly swimming and the occasional gym) and the Atkins diet allowed me to drop nearly 3 stone in about 5 months.

I now need to do the same again after the weight slowly went back on after I gave up the exercise and found that my body did not like the Atkins regime. So far I have been going to the gym on a regular basis probably twice a week for a few months, but the eating habits have not changed. Result? Better muscle tone, some redution in the midriff area but my weight has remained the same. Oh well, perhaps I'll try the weight watchers diet as I found that had had a good effect when I last tried it over 20 years ago.

The gym can be boring but I've recently joined the local YMCA gym (£30 per month) and the bikes, cross trainers and running machines all have individual LCD TV screens that you can change channels and watch/listen to most anything. Takes the drudge out of running a few K's!
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
I do find the cardio stuff exceedingly boring but believe me i put 110% effort into it and afterwards can hardly get my breath, i also up the speed / effort level to keep my Heart rate high so I'm not wasting my time. As for the 5 days a week I'm doing that in order to get slimmer faster if that makes sense, i intend to cut down to 3 times a week once i think i look good and feel healthy, at the minute i feel like an 80y.o. man.

The faster you lose weight, the faster you'll put it on, the faster you get fit, the faster you'll lose it, should you not be able to make the gym.

You're best doing a gradual build up over the course of maybe 12-24 months, you're more likely to get the results you're after. People make the mistake of hitting the gym, and thinking they can make themselves a new body in 6 weeks, and get depressed when after 6 weeks, after got the body they dreamed about.

Also forget about weighing yourself, as muscle weighs more than fat, and if you're doing weights for the first time, you could find yourself getting heavier! Using fat monitoring scales, or a photo evidence. Also ignore the BMI, as thats a load of bobbins as well.
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Also, if you must choose a gym, go for one with good looking ladies, it helps take the mind off training.
 

Kieron

Distinguished Member
The gym can be boring but I've recently joined the local YMCA gym (£30 per month) and the bikes, cross trainers and running machines all have individual LCD TV screens that you can change channels and watch/listen to most anything. Takes the drudge out of running a few K's!

Hey that's where I go! If you see me wheezing on the weight machines in the top right corner (near the plasma on the wall of course) then come help me!
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Also, if you must choose a gym, go for one with good looking ladies, it helps take the mind off training.
Not completely true

It is god-damned hard to concentrate on training when some girl from one of your classes strolls in :lesson:
 

bongo123

Active Member
Also, if you must choose a gym, go for one with good looking ladies, it helps take the mind off training.

The gym I'm in has quite a few fit ladies and they have these machines that the girls use that basically works theirs butts i assume as they ski from left to right and they had to go placing these bloody things in front of the running machines:smashin:. Now I'm all for staring at a great looking girl's behind as much as the next guy but **** me is it hard not to stare and look like a perv when your trying to keep a rhythm running plus its off putting... and then when they goto that machine where they lay on their stomachs and put their bum in the air... ahhhhh god help me... I'm there to lose weight not get thrown out for being a lecherous bastid lol
 

Kieron

Distinguished Member

Pat_C

Well-known Member
My routine is i run for 2miles:boring: (20mins @ 6.5mph) then do 20mins on the cross trainer:mad: then 7 different weight training thingymabobs:suicide:, I've been doing this 5days a week mon-fri right after work for the last few weeks.
Over training can be counter-productive, particularly for muscle development which occurs during periods of rest following resistance training. You might want to alternate the cardio and weights rather than do both on the same days, at least until you reach a higher level of fitness. The 40 mins of cardio is about right though, before the benefits of it start to tail off.

Also is it ok that on the weekends i tend to not follow the special K breakfast, cereal lunch and healthy dinner, i.e. Mc'Ds / KFC / Beer... but only on the Saturday, sun I'm kinda back to normal, would doing this have an adverse effect on my weight loss / body beautiful attempt? or am i ok with my 1 day a week pig out.
Dietary 'treats' are widely accepted as OK, and often recommended as a way of maintaining motivation. However, I believe that the real key is to change your diet in a way that doesn't require you to compensate in this way, with 'bad' food being eaten only occasionally - and NOT as a routine 'day off' thing. Part of achieving this is not going to extremes with healthy eating. Changing your diet should be seen as a positive lifestyle change, not as a punishment to escape from whenever possible.

The simple reality is that you can eat/drink as much crap as you like, but every 'bad' calorie you consume will negate some of the good work you have done on the exercise front. You will have only limited success if your desire to 'pig out' is on a par with your desire for weight loss and good health and fitness. If you can't make that commitment to yourself then you are likely to be heading for disappointment and demotivation.

Try thinking of a Big Mac (or whatever) in terms of a distance that needs to be run, or time spent on the cross trainer, just to break even. I found that helps.
 

Mr Incredible

Distinguished Member
Yeah, on St. Alban's.

Here's a great link for weight training by the way...

http://www.nlpbodybuilding.com/support-files/bodybuildingtips.pdf

Good link Kieron. I've got my goal in mind already............




mrincmuscles.jpg



Interesting that Mr Incredible's "cartoon real life" name is Robert "Bob". Spooky!
 

ush flynn

Well-known Member
ugh... cardio... do you enjoy it?
Basically... Would you say you had a slow metabolism? its one of the problems i suffer from being a bit of an endomorph.

this whole stripping fat business is very vague.. do me a favour and do this for me
Take your weight in lbs and multiply that by 11.. this number is a more accurate measurement of your Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR)
In other words... on the back of health foods where it says males should consume 2500 calories per day is obviously not the same for everyone. Your RMR that you just worked out is much more accurate..
Surprised?
yeah its a lot higher than you thought isnt it
What this means is that if you were to lie in bed all day, this amount of calories should make sure that after 24 hours and at the same hydration, you are the same body fat/ body mass/ weight you were when you started

To lose some of your body fat and visceral fat, you need whats known as a calorie deficit. Everyone knows about the "take in less calories than you use" well thats the simple version and its very true.. The Deficit should be at least 500kcal per day, and up to around 800kcal if you think you can do it.
However you are going to want to do this healthily! Anyone can eat say 2300kcals worth of chocolate eclairs!
Right onto metabolism quickly. Your muscle mass and quality is part of what determines your metabolism. Your muscles will use energy when they are under load, and your energy comes from your calorie intake. The more muscle you have to burn calories, the higher your metabolism (it also depends on a lot of other things but i wont go into that just now)
Now... cardio is good for keeping your heart rate up, you dont want it to go too high, so caning up the treadmill to 15degrees or too fast a speed isnt good! your heart rate should be kept at a healthy level (which you will need to work out with your weight, age combo... Dont delve too deeply into the science of this.. keep your heart going faster but not stupidly fast... you should know the difference!)

Right back to your calories!! The majority of your calories should now be taken up by protein, between 50-60% of your calorie intake should come from protein sources. In order of greatness these include;
Whey protein (shakes)
Cows milk
Cooked Egg White
Fish (tuna, mackrel, salmon are good fish)
Lean red meat
Chicken
soy protein (soybeans)
Oats
Rice Protein
Peanuts
Peas
Whole-Wheat

So as you can see there are carbs involved in some of those protein sources, the rice, oats, peas, and wheat all contain carbs. But as you may know, Carbs come in 2 main types... Complex and Simple (refined)
Complex is far better than simple, and they are things like
Scottish oats
Wholemeal pasta, remember couscous is just pasta
Whole Grain Rice (wild and basmati fall into this)
Wholemeal bread
Chick Peas

so chuck out white rice, white bread and white pasta if you can

after your 50% intake of protein, 30% should come from carbs... complex ones
and the last 20% you might be surprised to hear is FAT!
you will be taking in fats and oils from the fish you eat if you choose to, of they can be supplemented if you can't stomach all that fish. Omega 3,6,9 oil or supplements are highly recommended if you plan to avoid fish. It doesnt taste of fish so splash it on your salads if you like
Extra Virgin Olive Oil is good on salads and, things like this are called essential fatty acids. Don't try and cut them out of your diet
You want to avoid saturated fats, hydrogentated fats and trans-fatty acids
You will find all of these in a product like margarine, use butter if you have to!
Avoid sugar altogether if you can, in drinks, sweets, cakes and things like that. Naturally occuring sugars are OKish, like fruit and honey, but being slightly higher GI you might want to cut back on thier use.

If you find keeping off sugar quite hard then try and get some chromium in your diet, supplements are good. A good mens multivitamin will sort you right out and should help cut those cravings

Your question about a bad day... Yes and No
A bad day is a no no, but if you have done well in a week then a "Cheat Meal" is good for motivation and shouldnt do you any harm. Literally just the one meal though, dont make it an all day thing


Lastly in my post
Eat more often!!!
make sure you eat breakfast... take your carbs in at breakfast (oats made in skimmed milk... perfect)
and at lunch (wholegrain rice and veg with some chicken or fish?)
try and keep the carbs to a minimum when it comes to dinner time if possible. If you are going to the gym then a small portion of carbs is ok about 90 mins before gym in the evenings. Try not take any other carbs in after about 5pm though. So cut the rice pasta and potatos out of your dinners. Sweet potato is better than white potato if you like the taste

So you are going to want to bump up your meal intake to about 5-6 meals a day. I am taking in protein shakes while im at work as meal replacements.. ill get on to protein shortly

Try and eat breakfast on or around 8? whenever you get up is fine, eat again at 11, then at 2 then at 5, 7.30ish and then again at 9-9.30
If you work out in the evenings like i do then a protein intake after the gym (within 20 mins if possible) is very beneficial. Milk protein before bed is also good...i combine the two. I go to the gym at 9 till 10.30, have a whey protein shake in skimmed milk when i get back

If you think this is too much food, think of this, a portion of something should be about the size of your palm, if you have a tin of tuna as one portion, it should help you work out everything else, so for dinner, your meat is one portion, veg one portion and rice/ sweet potato is one portion

you wont go hungry! The idea behind this is that you need to keep your thyroid active and let it be processing as much as time. Eating like this is known as grazing, and over time it will help you speed up your metabolism
a "MEAL" doesnt have to be a square meal,
For example

8am
Egg omlette
or
oats in skimmed milk
protein meal replacement (make sure it contains carbs)

11am
protein shake
or
plain bio yoghurt

2pm

Tuna salad or
chicken salad or
Sandwich of either on wholemeal bread
chicken rice and veg,
steak and pasta
salmon and rice

whatever!! a healthy lunch basically! make sure protein is involved and you are sensible with portions!

5pm
protein shake or
fish or chicken sandwich (go crazy on the salad if you like)

7-8pm

chicken or fish salad (no carbs though)
add rice if you are training

GYM
protein shake or
fish or chicken and salad

milk protein before bed



so as you can see theres a lot of meals, if you can stick to something like that you will be surprised that your body will do a better job of cutting fat off your body (as long as you are working out!!)

PROTEIN!!!!!!!!!!

right
protein is the foundation of preserving or building muscle!! your body needs it! and it needs more than you you think or have been giving it!
As a general rule, an average person SHOULD be consuming between 1 and 1.2 grams of protein per Pound of body WEIGHT per day
if you are on an eating plan then consider pushing this up to 1.5-1.8g/lb per day

BUT! you dont want to eat it all in one go!
The body can deal without about 40-50g protein at a time, it then takes between 2 and 3 hours for it to be ready to process more, which is why the meals are based around this. Every meal you eat in a day should contain protein.

There are different sorts of protein, the type in meats and fish and eggs are absorbed pretty quickly
Milk Protein (casein) take much longer to process, but this is sometimes beneficial it means you dont have to take it in as often... SO this is why people should take milk protein before bed time, the body will take 4-6 hours to process it which should last you most of the night, Then as soon as you wake up you get some more carbs and protein down you! basically... dont let up! The longer you leave between meals the less active your thyroid gets. So an optimum time of 2 1/2 to 3 hours between meals is perfect

IF you need to know more i can direct you to some good info, if you want to avoid supplements make sure your food is varied enough. Otherwise i would suggest again, a decent mens multivitamin, containing chromium and magnesium
Whey protein supplements are good if you are on the go... go to myprotein.co.uk and look at thier impact whey protein (wpc80) its very well priced. You mix it with water during the day and milk at night... it tastes ok with water to be honest! but GREAT with milk!!

pm me or reply here if you need more info... i hope i have been helpful! just telling you to eat helthy or run more isnt all that useful, have plans and have a goal.
With the help of my cousin and a few websites and another forum, i have lost 18lbs in body weight and kept/built muscle mass in 4 weeks (only just bought body measuring scales the other day)


i just realised i haven't even got into work outs!! basically cardio is best done in the morning before you take in food... then you burn fat stores not food you have eaten during the door. Otherwise is can actually impede the work your muscles do. If you enjoy weight lifting then its more beneficial to you in getting your muscles to do the work. i can talk about that next time... Dont be afraid, you might be surprised how little you need to do each time at the gym, i can have you done in 40 mins a day, 3 days a week, 4 if you like
 

Kieron

Distinguished Member
Well, blow me, in a non-biblical sense!

I was there on Monday morning and prolly go tomorrow morning. I'll grab your programme out the box and increase all the reps and weights for you!!

Hehe. I do boxing on Mondays and Wednesdays at a gym in Blackpool - tend to go Tuesdays to the YM to do weights. I'm doing white collar boxing in January if any of the gang fancy watching.

Good link Kieron. I've got my goal in mind already............




mrincmuscles.jpg



Interesting that Mr Incredible's "cartoon real life" name is Robert "Bob". Spooky!

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 

dBrowne

Active Member
ush_flynn:

That was a wonderfully comprehensive post, but don't you get bored of that diet? Talk about monastically bland.

Is this a diet that you would foresee yourself maintaining for ever, or only until you had achieved your goal whereupon you'd moderate it? Is it "just" a case of learning not to want? Tough call for someone who enjoys French and Italian cooking.

Anyway, it all looks like sound advice. Thanks for posting it.
 

bongo123

Active Member
Great post Flynn, definitely a good read with some helpful pointers that i will be taking onboard mate
 

ush flynn

Well-known Member
guys, ive posted very basic versions of what i eat! i can chop and change things and i can prepare the meats however i like, spices, marinades, i use olive oil or flax oil, you just steer clear from bad fats and sugars, so no shop bought salsas or sauces, just make them yourself! its pretty flexible as long as you are sensible. wholemeal pasta, wholegrain rice can be cooked how you like, bakes, stirfrys, egg is good protein, nothing wrong with egg fried rice if you use flax oil or a decent oil.

Sandwiches are fine just make without butter or mayo. Moisture in a sandwich can come from tomatoes. Pepper for flavour, there is even decent cheeses you can have if you crave more dairy. Cottage cheese is great for protein

If i gave you a huge list of foods in each category im sure you could make some decent recipes out of them! dont think of them as plain ol pasta and a bit of dry chicken breast! even i couldnt stay on it like that!

One change i think you should be able to make is the eating more often, you will hear about that a lot. Its very important in thyroid function and if you are generally eating healthily and working out it will help a lot

Things like Green Tea (either to drink or a supplement) Taurine, Caffiene (supplement) Sida Cordifolia (natural of ephedrine, dont take with caffiene) and Sesamin (supplement) are all good fat burning catalysts. You dont need to take them all but combos of 2 or more can be very effective

heres an article posted on myprotein... the place i get my whey
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/your-goals/fat-loss/?article=introduction have a read through it will explain in more detail and probably better than i described.... there is a ton more articles on the site too if anyone is interested


As for the length of time. Im eating like this to lose weight, when i reach my goal i can be a lot more flexible to stay where i am.
i should have maintained muscle mass i've built over the years playing rugby, american football and being on and off at the gym. I've always been fairly strong. Rather than just shrinking completely this method of dieting should allow me to remove the fat and keep the muscle (protein is essential for muscles... what do you think happens in a diet without protein? sure you lose weight but in the right places?)
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
I have cheat days lol,and in my view no it doesn't negate all the good that has gone on during the week ,just remember to have a really clean diet during the week .

After a lay off from training of 3yrs i've decided to start training again and lost 4inches off my waist and only 7 pounds since june ,without doing any cardio,just by eating relatively cleanly.
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
I have cheat days lol,and in my view no it doesn't negate all the good that has gone on during the week ,just remember to have a really clean diet during the week .

There is a diet plan, called the "5+2" were you are ultra strict for the Mon-Fri, then are more relaxed on the Sat-Sun.
 

ush flynn

Well-known Member
yeah there is no reason why you cant reward yourself, but i dont know about multiple takeaways in one day!!

the other week i was in a cake eating contest at a bbq and was still 4lb lighter than the previous weigh in!
 

bongo123

Active Member
yeah there is no reason why you cant reward yourself, but i dont know about multiple takeaways in one day!!

the other week i was in a cake eating contest at a bbq and was still 4lb lighter than the previous weigh in!

haha i'm not that bad, i meant either one or the others
 

bongo123

Active Member
guys, ive posted very basic versions of what i eat! i can chop and change things and i can prepare the meats however i like, spices, marinades, i use olive oil or flax oil, you just steer clear from bad fats and sugars, so no shop bought salsas or sauces, just make them yourself! its pretty flexible as long as you are sensible. wholemeal pasta, wholegrain rice can be cooked how you like, bakes, stirfrys, egg is good protein, nothing wrong with egg fried rice if you use flax oil or a decent oil.

Sandwiches are fine just make without butter or mayo. Moisture in a sandwich can come from tomatoes. Pepper for flavour, there is even decent cheeses you can have if you crave more dairy. Cottage cheese is great for protein

If i gave you a huge list of foods in each category im sure you could make some decent recipes out of them! dont think of them as plain ol pasta and a bit of dry chicken breast! even i couldnt stay on it like that!

One change i think you should be able to make is the eating more often, you will hear about that a lot. Its very important in thyroid function and if you are generally eating healthily and working out it will help a lot

Things like Green Tea (either to drink or a supplement) Taurine, Caffiene (supplement) Sida Cordifolia (natural of ephedrine, dont take with caffiene) and Sesamin (supplement) are all good fat burning catalysts. You dont need to take them all but combos of 2 or more can be very effective

heres an article posted on myprotein... the place i get my whey
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/your-goals/fat-loss/?article=introduction have a read through it will explain in more detail and probably better than i described.... there is a ton more articles on the site too if anyone is interested


As for the length of time. I'm eating like this to lose weight, when i reach my goal i can be a lot more flexible to stay where i am.
i should have maintained muscle mass I've built over the years playing rugby, american football and being on and off at the gym. I've always been fairly strong. Rather than just shrinking completely this method of dieting should allow me to remove the fat and keep the muscle (protein is essential for muscles... what do you think happens in a diet without protein? sure you lose weight but in the right places?)

again all great info but when i make toast it somehow comes out soggy and when making myself a cereal i burn it.. i couldn't cook to save my life, i can chop stuff and throw in some cold meats oh and i can open tins but usually overnuke them
 

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