Question for Denon 3801 owners

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by AlfaKhan, Sep 5, 2001.

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  1. AlfaKhan

    AlfaKhan
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    Hi,

    Is it my impression, my not so perfect English, or the manual for the 3801 isn't a paradigm of clarity?

    About the Component (Y,Cr,Cb) circuitry: Apart from the fact that one can "join" 2 separate IN signals, (DVD and TV/DBS)to 1 output (MONITOR), why is it there for?

    I mean, one can not get the Component signals fed to any other type of output (Composite or SVHS), so why would one want to feed the Component signals to the Amp, instead of routing them directly (i.e. DVD to Projector) and avoid the extra internal circuitry path?

    Txs for any replies.

    HB
     
  2. Family Guy

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    I think it's to actually save money. They don't have RGB in the states, they have the (some say superior) component outputs on evrything we would find an RGB scart on here. i.e DVD and digital satellite, digital cable, even PS2 has it.<br />Most projectors only have one component input. Therefore, the amp has 2 so you can feed your video sources in to the amp and out to the projector/TV using the amp as a video switcher in the process. It would be cheaper to produce 1 model worldwide rather than 1 for the states with component in & out and one for Europe with these sockets removed.<br />That's the way I see it anyway. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
     
  3. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Just to add that component in/outputs are currently only found on DVD players but give, as with RGB, the best picture quality - given that your display (TV, plasma or whatever) has compatible inputs.<br />As well component connections are used for PS (progressive scan), also in Europe.

    That said you cannot convert from S-Video (not S-VHS!) to composite or vice versa either.
     
  4. AlfaKhan

    AlfaKhan
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    Hi Reiner and Bri

    I get the the origins and use for this type of connection.

    My point is: Why are they on the 3801, if nothing happens inside the amp (they seem to be a mere "pass-through")? Why not connect the source and display directly, avoiding further circuitry?

    (Sorry I meant S-Video, of course...)

    HB
     
  5. Reiner

    Reiner
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    The same what for composite or S-Video applies:

    It merely allows video switching for convenience or lack of connections at the display device.

    I have 2 S-Video sources but only one S-Video input at the TV - what would I else do if not connect them all to the amp first and then to the TV?<br />As well I have component in/out on my TV and DVD respectively, but since there is only one connection it's direct (besides, my amp does not have component switching facility).

    You are actually right to say that a direct connection would, at least theoratically, be better.<br />Component switching is usually done via relais so it would not introduce any signal degradation or loss. Yeah, one could argue the additional run of cable does but you would need to be pushed hard to notice a difference (if at all).

    [ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: Reiner ]</p>
     
  6. AlfaKhan

    AlfaKhan
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    Good points. Txs Reiner.

    HB
     
  7. AlfaKhan

    AlfaKhan
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    ...Just some thoughts:

    I'm new at this AV thing, but it seems to me that a true AV Amp aimed at being the center of an AV system, should have the electronic matrixes that would allow switching from and to different kinds of imputs.

    Of course separate streams of different types should also (as it is) still be available, as conversion would possibly degrade the signals.

    The user would then have more latitude (and less cable) to choose from. As this is, I will now have to run a additional 7.5m S-Video cable from the Amp to the projector if I want to see anything apart from Component signals, which can only be output from my DVD player.

    Of course, I understand this would make for possible more expensive piece of hardware, but then, again, the user would have the final call.

    I have purchased this piece of equipment in part due to some rave reviews about it, which made it sound as a well endowed, almost perfect, AV amp. Maybe its me, but I find this innadquancy quite annoying...

    HB
     
  8. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Agree, the converion would be nice but also increase the price. Keep however in mind that a conversion from a lower quality signal (e.g. Composite to S-Video) would not improve the picture quality of the Composite source, you would only save the cable from AV amp to display.<br />Sometimes it would be an advatage as you do not need to select another input at your TV then ... we are all lazy, aren't we!? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
     
  9. Guest

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    I heard that Denon plan to introduce conversion into their amps/receivers.

    As a sideline do you think it's possible to channel RGB through these component video pathways? I.e. SCART to RGB phonos for the DVD and set top box, then RGB to SACRT for the TV? That would make my life a lot easier.<br />Mark
     
  10. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Yes, you can use the component switching in/outputs for RGB, too.
     
  11. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Reiner wrote "Yes, you can use the component switching in/outputs for RGB, too."

    Actually, no.

    Not unless your source (DVD player/Sky box etc) can send out a particular version of RGB, and your TV/Projector can accept this slightly different version. I'll explain a little more...

    RGB comes in three flavours. RGBHV (requires 5 connectors), RGBS (requires 4 connectors, as used by most European SCART equipped DVD players), and finally RGsB (requires 3 connectors), this is also known as "Sync on Green".

    Most sources that use SCART and that can output an RGB signal require 4 connectors to deliver the signal. These are - Red, Green, Blue, and Sync.

    The Sync signal is a timing pulse that instructs the display when to start writing the RGB picture information. Without it, the display either produces a scrambled picture or no picture at all. This is what would happen if you just connected R G and B through the component inputs of an AV amp without also connecting the Sync signal.

    If your DVD player (and other RGB equipped sources) has a menu selection which allows you to choose RGsB, then you can buy a SCART to 3 phono RGB cable and route this through the 3 phono connectors on the Denon amp. It is then just a question of checking your display can accept Sync-on-green RGB.

    Mark, in reality its more hassle than it is worth to try routing RGB through a component equipped AV amp. If you have enough RGB inputs (SCARTS) on your TV then you should simply connect the pictures direct. The advantage here is you'll also get sound through the SCART, so when She Who Must Be Obeyed turns on the Telly to watch Sky or a DVD it all works easily. The sound can still run through the AV amp for those special movie moments.

    Regards
     
  12. ReTrO

    ReTrO
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    Chris

    Can you not also just send the composite video signal through and use this as a sync?

    Should work with a lot of stuff. No?
     
  13. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Richard, What a smart solution!

    If the amp is able to switch component and composite at the same time and it doesn't introduce on-screen graphics to the sync signal fed via composite, then yes, that might work.

    Regards
     
  14. Family Guy

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    Chris,<br />Any chance you could actually explain how to do this using the Denon 3801 and say, a Sky Digibox?<br />Cheers

    [ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Army Bloke ]</p>
     
  15. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Bri,<br />This relies on the amp (Denon 3801 in this case) switching its inputs cleanly and without adding On Screen Graphics. This is theoretical at the moment, but I’d be interested to know if it works.

    Connect Sky box to amp via SCART to 4 phono RGBS cable (plus phonos for audio)<br />Plug in R,G & B phonos to the 3 phono connectors to the first video input with component sockets <br />Plug in the Sync phono from the SCART cable to composite input that matches up with the component input.<br />· You should now have the 4 phonos from the SCART cable connected to the AV amp, all going to the same channel (say Video 1)

    Now connect a 4 phono RGBS to SCART cable from the amp to the TV by doing the same connections but this time from the output on the amp. Make sure you connect Red to Red, Green to Green, Blue to Blue, and that the input is also correctly connected.

    Connect sound as you would normally.

    Set the TV to the RGB input. Switch the amp to the SKY input, and you should have an RGB feed from SKY via the amp to your TV.

    You may have to set the TV aspect ratio manually, since this switching relies on another pin in the SCART plug that won’t be connected using the method above.

    Credit to Richard from the Sound Gallery for coming up with this solution.

    Regards
     
  16. Family Guy

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    Many thanks. I'll give it a go at the weekend and let you know if it works.
     

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