Question: Audyssey app - flat settings

UMAR 3:16

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I’ve run Audyssey calibration using the app. Disabled midrange compensation and adjusted the frequency selector to 400hz.

My issue is that I still prefer the flat setting rather than the reference setting. I know midrange compensation when disabled affects both the reference and flat settings, but I cant find an answer anywhere, if you adjust the frequency response does that change Happen in the flat settings. Audioholics suggest the flat setting and frequency to 100-300hz but reading elsewhere, only the reference mode takes into account any frequency settings which contradicts audiohlics advice.

So question, does changing the frequency setting affect the flat mode?
 
I’ve run Audyssey calibration using the app. Disabled midrange compensation and adjusted the frequency selector to 400hz.

My issue is that I still prefer the flat setting rather than the reference setting. I know midrange compensation when disabled affects both the reference and flat settings, but I cant find an answer anywhere, if you adjust the frequency response does that change Happen in the flat settings. Audioholics suggest the flat setting and frequency to 100-300hz but reading elsewhere, only the reference mode takes into account any frequency settings which contradicts audiohlics advice.

So question, does changing the frequency setting affect the flat mode?
AFAIK no.
The ability to config the flat setting is one of the unique selling points of the much more expensive MultEQ-X PC app vs the cheaper Android app. Although it is claimed that you can do in the free Ratbuddysey too.

Also if you bring in the frequency selector curtain from the right down to 300hz Audyssey is doing nothing to change the natural frequency fall off of the speakers. All the app does is allow a choice of two Audyssey high frequency fall offs but not a flat one. Flat however has to apply a large boost to this frequency range to get a flat response in the upper frequencies.

Audyssey Flat –The “Flat” setting uses the MultEQ XT filters in the same way as the Audyssey curve, but it does not apply a high frequency roll-off. This setting is appropriate for very small or highly treated rooms in which the listener is seated quite close to the loudspeakers. It is also recommended for all rooms when the receiver is in THX processing mode, given the receiver is THX Certified. This allows THX re-equalization to operate exactly as it was intended.
Audyssey Flat vs. Reference - Which is Best for Your Room?


You can see what is going on clearly in the MultEQ-X app as it show seperate graphs for before, after and also importantly a graph for the frequency changes that Audyssey is doing to get the after response.

If you prefer a flatter response be sure to turn off cinema eq as this also does a roll off in the higher frequencies.
 
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AFAIK no.
The ability to config the flat setting is one of the unique selling points of the much more expensive MultEQ-X PC app vs the cheaper Android app. Although it is claimed that you can do in the free Ratbuddysey too.

Also if you bring in the frequency selector curtain from the right down to 300hz Audyssey is doing nothing to change the natural frequency fall off of the speakers. All the app does is allow a choice of two Audyssey high frequency fall offs but not a flat one. Flat however has to apply a large boost to this frequency range to get a flat response in the upper frequencies.

Audyssey Flat –The “Flat” setting uses the MultEQ XT filters in the same way as the Audyssey curve, but it does not apply a high frequency roll-off. This setting is appropriate for very small or highly treated rooms in which the listener is seated quite close to the loudspeakers. It is also recommended for all rooms when the receiver is in THX processing mode, given the receiver is THX Certified. This allows THX re-equalization to operate exactly as it was intended.
Audyssey Flat vs. Reference - Which is Best for Your Room?


You can see what is going on clearly in the MultEQ-X app as it show seperate graphs for before, after and also importantly a graph for the frequency changes that Audyssey is doing to get the after response.

If you prefer a flatter response be sure to turn off cinema eq as this also does a roll off in the higher frequencies.
Cinema eq, dynamic eq are all off.

So all I have done via the app is to turn off midrange compensation then?
 
Cinema eq, dynamic eq are all off.

So all I have done via the app is to turn off midrange compensation then?
Sort of. If you have the frequency selectors over at 400hz, you're doing no Audyssey processing at any frequencies higher than those selected. You won't even have really turned off MR comp as it wouldn't actually be on as it's done for frequencies between 2K-4K. and you're doing no Audyssey changes higher than 400hz.

Personally I'd turn on Dynamic Eq. If you find it too much dial down the effect to -5db, -10db, or -15db (least DEQ).
 
Sort of. If you have the frequency selectors over at 400hz, you're doing no Audyssey processing at any frequencies higher than those selected. You won't even have really turned off MR comp as it wouldn't actually be on as it's done for frequencies between 2K-4K. and you're doing no Audyssey changes higher than 400hz.

Personally I'd turn on Dynamic Eq. If you find it too much dial down the effect to -5db, -10db, or -15db (least DEQ).
Sorry, I don’t get it, you’re saying if I have the frequency setting at 400hz midrange compsenation isn’t really doing its job? As mentioned, I am using flat so regardless of what frequency I select the flat response doesn’t have effect on the frequency setting?
 
Sorry, I don’t get it, you’re saying if I have the frequency setting at 400hz midrange compsenation isn’t really doing its job? As mentioned, I am using flat so regardless of what frequency I select the flat response doesn’t have effect on the frequency setting?
You say you turned off MR comp so presumably the state you want is MR OFF
Audyssey Reference comes with MR comp turned on as default (MR ON)
You have turned MR comp off in the app (MR OFF)
But by using the limit selectors at 300hz you have also disabled all Audyssey processing >300hz
So you have in effect already done a MR OFF via the frequency selectors as you told Audyssey not to do any processing >300hz.

The main difference noted between Flat and Reference is that full frequency range Reference applies a high frequency roll off curve (choice of 2 in the app) whereas Flat doesn't apply a high frequency roll off curve.

But by limiting the frequency range Audyssey operates down to 300hz, Reference can't then apply either of its high frequency roll offs so it should be equivalent to flat in that respect which I think is what Audioholics may be saying (have you got a link?).

But despite that you're saying you've done that 400hz cutoff but still prefer flat. Which may indicate that flat is also doing other things than a frequency range limited Reference.
 
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You say you turned off MR comp so presumably the state you want is MR OFF
Audyssey Reference comes with MR comp turned on as default (MR ON)
You have turned MR comp off in the app (MR OFF)
But by using the limit selectors at 400hz you have also disabled all Audyssey processing >400hz
So you have in effect already done a MR OFF via the frequency selectors as you told Audyssey not to do any processing >400hz.

The main difference noted between Flat and Reference is that full frequency range Reference applies a high frequency roll off curve (choice of 2 in the app) whereas Flat doesn't apply a high frequency roll off curve.

But by limiting the frequency range Audyssey operates down to 400hz, Reference can't then apply either of its high frequency roll offs so it should be equivalent to flat in that respect which I think is what Audioholics may be saying (have you got a link?).

But despite that you're saying you've done that 400hz cutoff but still prefer flat. Which may indicate that flat is also doing other things than a frequency range limited Reference.
Thanks, I get it what you’re saying now. Yes MR is off and I am using flat. have also set limit to 400hz in app, you are correct that there is still a difference in sound signatures from reference to flat so flat must be doing something Elise?!

see link below at 58:26 a summary slide is given with recommended settings which clearly states set to flat and change frequency setting to 100-300hz

 
Thanks, I get it what you’re saying now. Yes MR is off and I am using flat. have also set limit to 400hz in app, you are correct that there is still a difference in sound signatures from reference to flat so flat must be doing something Elise?!

see link below at 58:26 a summary slide is given with recommended settings which clearly states set to flat and change frequency setting to 100-300hz


Something I'm not following there is the slide which states to set Fronts to flat rather than reference. Is that what you are referring to?

I've just loaded up an audyssey file in the app and can't see anywhere that can be set.
You can turn MR Comp on or off for the fronts but not specify flat or reference. Perhaps that is a typo in the slide?

Where are you selecting flat?
 
Something I'm not following there is the slide which states to set Fronts to flat rather than reference. Is that what you are referring to?

I've just loaded up an audyssey file in the app and can't see anywhere that can be set.
You can turn MR Comp on or off for the fronts but not specify flat or reference. Perhaps that is a typo in the slide?

Where are you selecting flat?
I think it’s a typo in the slide. You can’t change just the fronts. I can only change to flat via the AVP’s internal menu not the app.
 
I think it’s a typo in the slide. You can’t change just the fronts. I can only change to flat via the AVP’s internal menu not the app.
Yes that change only in the AVP is what I'd expect.

I've just loaded up an Audyssey MultEQ-X file and compared the graphs of front left speaker with
  1. reference high frequency rolloff curve 1
  2. reference no rolloff curve (can't be done in the Android app)
  3. flat
  4. reference frequency range selector on 300hz.
Purple graph is what Audyssey will do to get the after results.
2 and 3 are identical so apart from the high frequency rolloff filter, Flat and Reference are likely the same (although there may be built in filters which are different between non app audyssey, android app, and pc app).

4 shows that with 300hz selector the native speaker frequency response is unchanged. Obviously your native speaker frequency response will not be the same as mine.

If that Android app 300Hz limit applies to both flat and reference (I don't think it does) there wouldn't be any difference between selecting Flat and Reference in that specific case. If however Flat is unchanged by the app 300hz frequency selector (which I think is the case) you would get image 3 response for Flat and image 4 response for reference.

However all of this is based on looking at the MultEQ-X app where you can specify different filters and curves etc for Reference and for Flat. You may be able to do something similar using Ratbuddyssey but I haven't used it.

Getting back to your original question "does changing the frequency setting affect the flat mode?",. Again I don't think it does based on you hearing a difference between flat and reference when using the frequency selector.

1
ref-rolloff1.jpg
2
ref-no-rolloff.jpg
3
flat-no-filters.jpg
4
curtain.jpg
 
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Thanks for your feedback. I’m just getting my head around curves and response graphs so will try to take it all in. What I do know is flat and reference defiantly have different sound profiles (reference using the frequency selected at 400hz) it’s not a small difference either, centre channel dialogue is much cleaner and the sound stage also feels more wider. Both profiles have MC turned off…. I’ve also just read up on the sticky in the avr forum section and changed the distance settings using the 0.875 to each speaker and sub. I’ll test this more later but seems to have an improvement, again using the flat profile.
 
The Audioholics video could be referring to an older version of the App. Originally it gave you a choice of Roll Off 1, Roll Off 2 and Flat.

The Flat option was removed some time ago. Not entirely sure why.

As far as I know, if you select Flat in the AVR/AVP then you're getting full range correction to a flat response with MRC off. Any settings you change in the Audyssey App now only affect the Reference option.

Unless you have MultEQ-X of course (which is rather nifty).
 
The Audioholics video could be referring to an older version of the App. Originally it gave you a choice of Roll Off 1, Roll Off 2 and Flat.

The Flat option was removed some time ago. Not entirely sure why.

As far as I know, if you select Flat in the AVR/AVP then you're getting full range correction to a flat response with MRC off. Any settings you change in the Audyssey App now only affect the Reference option.

Unless you have MultEQ-X of course (which is rather nifty).
Thanks - I still prefer the sound of flat compared to reference, with the frequency responses reduced to 300hz on reference. Both versions have MC off
 
I’ll try it and report back… which roll off is more like flat? 1 or 2?

Roll Off 1 generally has a bit more treble (in my system at least).

Don't forget you can also have a tinker with the Tone Controls as long as you aren't using Dynamic EQ. Press the Options button on the remote then select Tone to turn the controls On/Off and adjust Bass/Treble.
 
Roll Off 1 generally has a bit more treble (in my system at least).

Don't forget you can also have a tinker with the Tone Controls as long as you aren't using Dynamic EQ. Press the Options button on the remote then select Tone to turn the controls On/Off and adjust Bass/Treble.
I’ve tried that. I still prefer the flat setting. Will try with full frequency with roll off 1 and see
 
I’ll try it and report back… which roll off is more like flat? 1 or 2?
Neither :)
Roll 1 has more output at 5khz-10khz than roll2 but less output at 15khz-20khz than roll2

Flat is flat from 5khz-20khz. But to do that it will have to boost the natural frequency range of your speakers considerably at the higher frequencies. Looking at my image 3 above that will be up to a 9db or so boost at the very top frequences (your speakers may require less or more).

How are your front speakers arranged? Toe in or straight ahead? You could be off axis to the tweeters and so not getting all their treble output, hence feeling that you need more treble which is what flat will be providing.
 
Neither :)
Roll 1 has more output at 5khz-10khz than roll2 but less output at 15khz-20khz than roll2

Flat is flat from 5khz-20khz. But to do that it will have to boost the natural frequency range of your speakers considerably at the higher frequencies. Looking at my image 3 above that will be up to a 9db or so boost at the very top frequences (your speakers may require less or more).

How are your front speakers arranged? Toe in or straight ahead? You could be off axis to the tweeters and so not getting all their treble output, hence feeling that you need more treble which is what flat will be providing.
Here you go…. I think they are bang on LR, centre slightly lower than I would like but it’s not a that much off…. What is the more intent sound profile, reference or flat? I’m guessing reference.

The KK LR have a natural toe in…
 

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@Jase before I send an updated file to the AVP, I might try reference at 400hz which is currently set and increase the treble via tone control. After applying the distance time delay settings I haven’t tried reference (and will need to do this again) Question, what’s a good number to up the treble? +2?
 
@Jase before I send an updated file to the AVP, I might try reference at 400hz which is currently set and increase the treble via tone control. After applying the distance time delay settings I haven’t tried reference (and will need to do this again) Question, what’s a good number to up the treble? +2?

I'd start with +1 personally and then go from there.

Out of interest what are the before green graphs like for your Fronts and Centre? Ideally, you don't want to boosting a lot of the frequency range as mentioned above by @two2midnight
 
I'd start with +1 personally and then go from there.

Out of interest what are the before green graphs like for your Fronts and Centre? Ideally, you don't want to boosting a lot of the frequency range as mentioned above by @two2midnight
See below… as mentioned im a bit of a novice at reading these things…
 

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@Jase what you reading there? Lol
 
See below… as mentioned im a bit of a novice at reading these things…
Ah, they're naturally rolling off and also have the dip around the tweeter crossover region. That means you'll be applying quite a bit of boosting to hit the Flat target and even the Reference curves.

I'd try the Roll Off 2 curve and leave MRC On personally. You may not be so keen on that if you like the Flat setting although it should sound more natural if you give it a whirl for a bit.
 

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