Question Question about HDR gaming

TheGamer147

Active Member
I seem to have a problem on my tcl tv from AO. Com... With hdr are some cheaper tvs when using hdr on ps4 or xbox to make the image darker instead of brighter (as it supposed to)

Right I had a techwood tv and when gaming on hdr picture was great really bright and colourful on hdr but had to return it due to other issues with tv.

Now I currently have a tcl dp628 but when gaming on that TV with hdr on the picture goes so dark it unplayerable. I noticed without hdr image is bright as it meant to be. Is this a problem with tv.. I did notice that the TV has a brightness problem on satalite box also going from dark to light on channel change (all special features off)

I'm so buffed lol

Thanks
 

next010

Distinguished Member
There isn't a great deal of information on these low end TCL sets DP6*8, they are not like the more well known Roku based models. These runs a custom linux OS and the most info I can find on them is Amazon reviews and comments on other foreign TV forums but no general recommend settings.

Also the DP628 does not make any appearance on TCL's own site which lists the DP608 and DP648 though it's very likely it's one of those two renamed as the entire series use the same chipset and OS.

The one thing I did find was that HDR is supposedly improved via a firmware update to the TV, does the TV have a built in internet update ?

If there isn't one, look on the TCL site above, scroll down to where it says download then click on software update to get the latest firmware. There is a PDF files in that package that outlines the steps to update, it actually sounds like they are loading up the service menu to flash the firmware so be very careful as that can brick the TV if changing the wrong setting.

Do so at your own risk, this could break the TV.

The TV has a dynamic brightness mode too, this can only be switched off in the service menu, the Russian forum above says how if use Google Chrome to auto translate, but again it must be done via service menu which is risky.
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
HDR is not supposed to make the image brighter overall. The intention of HDR is to make the highlights on the image brighter without changing the average brightness, increasing contrast and realism without making the image harder on the eyes by making it much brighter. Although content creators can use the new brightness/contrast range as they like so there are examples that make entire scenes much brighter.

There are a couple of reasons why an HDR image can be dimmer than you're used to.

Firstly, the PQ-based HDR formats that most games use specify the image in absolute brightness values rather than brightness values relative to the TV's peak brightness setting as SDR and HLG do. So sometimes they're set up for a darker home cinema environment and not appropriate to bright sunlight. It may be that your new TV is displaying the picture as intended while the old one had the option to push up the average brightness.

Secondly TVs that aren't top of the range don't have the ability to display the whole contrast/brightness range in HDR content. When displaying bits beyond their capability they have to decide how to compress the range down to what they can display. Some will tend towards preserving average scene brightness and reduce contrast with the brighter bits, while others will tend towards preserving contrast at the cost of reducing average brightness.

Or as you say if you're getting weird behaviour elsewhere it could be a bug.
 

TheGamer147

Active Member
HDR is not supposed to make the image brighter overall. The intention of HDR is to make the highlights on the image brighter without changing the average brightness, increasing contrast and realism without making the image harder on the eyes by making it much brighter. Although content creators can use the new brightness/contrast range as they like so there are examples that make entire scenes much brighter.

There are a couple of reasons why an HDR image can be dimmer than you're used to.

Firstly, the PQ-based HDR formats that most games use specify the image in absolute brightness values rather than brightness values relative to the TV's peak brightness setting as SDR and HLG do. So sometimes they're set up for a darker home cinema environment and not appropriate to bright sunlight. It may be that your new TV is displaying the picture as intended while the old one had the option to push up the average brightness.

Secondly TVs that aren't top of the range don't have the ability to display the whole contrast/brightness range in HDR content. When displaying bits beyond their capability they have to decide how to compress the range down to what they can display. Some will tend towards preserving average scene brightness and reduce contrast with the brighter bits, while others will tend towards preserving contrast at the cost of reducing average brightness.

Or as you say if you're getting weird behaviour elsewhere it could be a bug.

Thanks guys

I did talk with tcl UK and there tech department said that it was a issue with software. They asked me to update the software which I did the sat box issue is the same after update but ps4 hdr is actually even darker (can't seem to get this to show on camera tho) I going to try and get a exchange do you this I might have same issue with replacement for same model?

Ps is the Philips 6753 any good.
 

next010

Distinguished Member
Thanks guys

I did talk with tcl UK and there tech department said that it was a issue with software. They asked me to update the software which I did the sat box issue is the same after update but ps4 hdr is actually even darker (can't seem to get this to show on camera tho) I going to try and get a exchange do you this I might have same issue with replacement for same model?

Ps is the Philips 6753 any good.

Are you on a standard PS4 or PS4 Pro ?

Standard PS4's (memory could be wrong on this) need the display and console running in high/full RGB mode to properly output HDR otherwise things can look too dark, this means on the TV side the HDMI black level has to be set to high/full or whatever they call it, some TV's have an auto mode but others are manual.

PS4 Pro's are generally fine on automatic RGB as they instead output YUV in HDR mode at 4K.
 
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TheGamer147

Active Member
I h
Are you on a standard PS4 or PS4 Pro ?

Standard PS4's (memory could be wrong on this) need the display and console running in high/full RGB mode to properly output HDR otherwise things can look too dark, this means on the TV side the HDMI black level has to be set to high/full or whatever they call it, some TV's have an auto mode but others are manual.

PS4 Pro's are generally fine on automatic RGB as they instead output YUV in HDR mode at 4K.
I have standard ps4 will try the above and let you know

I did notice that the brightness problem seem to be hdmi ports... As it doesn't happen with the smart apps.
 

dollag

Well-known Member
All my games on ps4 pro are generally darker in hdr but the highlights and detail are massively increased

Lets use destiny 2 as an example. guns have a lot more detail and controlled colours with hdr on rather than blown colours which lose detail.
 

TheGamer147

Active Member
All my games on ps4 pro are generally darker in hdr but the highlights and detail are massively increased

Lets use destiny 2 as an example. guns have a lot more detail and controlled colours with hdr on rather than blown colours which lose detail.
Any chance of a video

Currently uploading a video of the issue I have of brightness changing
 

dollag

Well-known Member
I will later im at work atm
 

dollag

Well-known Member
OK mate here one of the issues I have

VID_20190327_161302.mp4

Tried turning off all processing features same thing on all modes

But doesn't happen on smart apps


whats the issue there? it's not hdr related as normal tv does not output hdr. i guess the tv has a hdr effect setting?? what did you do for that brightness to increase?
 

TheGamer147

Active Member
whats the issue there? it's not hdr related as normal tv does not output hdr. i guess the tv has a hdr effect setting?? what did you do for that brightness to increase?
The brightness increase is also another issue I'm having with tv as well has the hdr being to dark.

Did Nothing to increase brightness that how it been since I first turned it on since I got it.

My phone camera doesn't show the darkness of hdr when I try and record a video. It shows how it supposed to look lol... It hard to explain basically my camera not showing a dark image only bright lol.
 

EvilBoris

Active Member
As others have said, most games will appear darker in HDR, as TV's often take away the ability to lighten the image in an effort to make the image correct.

This will look really pronounced if you have got the TV overly bright in SDR.
Some games are inherently darker than others.

What titles are you trying?

EDIT:

Just saw the specs of that TV. It has a peak brightness of 320nits. I would question whether there is any benefit to running titles in HDR at all.

In my experience, most titles in HDR need to be set to 400nits to look even vaguely similar to the SDR grade.
 
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TheGamer147

Active Member
As others have said, most games will appear darker in HDR, as TV's often take away the ability to lighten the image in an effort to make the image correct.

This will look really pronounced if you have got the TV overly bright in SDR.
Some games are inhererntly darker than others.

What titles are you trying?
Spiderman I get a dark image when loading save game or starting a new game. and crash bandicoot on crash I get a dark image on the main menu (before selecting a game).

On SM the screen so dark it losing detail in the spiderman outfit ie can barely see the spider logo on outfit and it dark when running on the street
 

TheGamer147

Active Member
These images are from my camera but the screen is actually alot darker than in pics
 

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TheGamer147

Active Member
I tried adjusting the settings on the tv menu had no affect. Only adjusting in game brightness changed thing but made it more orange looking
 

next010

Distinguished Member
OK mate here one of the issues I have

VID_20190327_161302.mp4

Tried turning off all processing features same thing on all modes

But doesn't happen on smart apps

That's the dynamic back light I believe they are referencing here, only way to turn if off is via the service menu which runs the risk of breaking the TV.

in the service menu (enter 1950 on Contrast> Param Setting> DBC> DBC Enable - off) it turns off the dynamic backlight.
 

TheGamer147

Active Member
That's the dynamic back light I believe they are referencing here, only way to turn if off is via the service menu which runs the risk of breaking the TV.
TCL haven't ask me to do this strange as they have asked their technicians department for help.. But not going to do it unless they ask me to due to warranty.

I contact them by email waiting for reply on if I can get a exchange
 

TheGamer147

Active Member
Tcl got back to they said the tech team has classed it a a defect tv and offered to repair or get AO to exchange.
 

TheGamer147

Active Member
just had replacement will update on how i get on.

Any issues I am going to get a refund and look around pc world etc any ideas of online retailers just in case
 
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TheGamer147

Active Member
As others have said, most games will appear darker in HDR, as TV's often take away the ability to lighten the image in an effort to make the image correct.

This will look really pronounced if you have got the TV overly bright in SDR.
Some games are inherently darker than others.

What titles are you trying?

EDIT:

Just saw the specs of that TV. It has a peak brightness of 320nits. I would question whether there is any benefit to running titles in HDR at all.

In my experience, most titles in HDR need to be set to 400nits to look even vaguely similar to the SDR grade.

Can you find out what the nit brightness is of this TV Techwood 50ao8usb I had this TV before which displayed hdr fine but had alot of crashing issues with it
 

TheGamer147

Active Member
Guys got a question from the forum link that next010 posted above I found this

2) One more thing, everything needs to be set up when the content mode switches to hdr10 mode, here the dual setting is obtained in normal and HDR, at least for me. -3 enough, adds dark.

Does or do you think that means that all firmware starting with v3 makes the hdr dark.

What makes me think this is because my old set had v340 and hdr was dark.

My replacement set is on firmware v186 and hdr is working fine.
 

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